Anti-Paladin politics?
Your agenda of removing paladin from half the civs
5 Likes
That is not political, and I also see nothing wrong with wanting Paladin to be a more restricted upgrade.
1 Like
Removes a late game power unit thatâs accessible enough without building expensive castles?
2 Likes
It requires rebalancing the civs you remove it from, all because you want the paladin to be more restricted. Literally only 10 civs get it.
As for removing it from lithuanians and buffing leitis. The leitis doesnât need a buff.
3 Likes
Lithuanian pre-buff are being used plenty in BoA 2, so I donât really see your point. They were already strong, now they are even more.
The only changes are for Leitis which require castle production (not very reliable in a serious game and also require more food now so harder to mass than knight) and tower shields which is not relevant in TGs. So idk why would it be different
1 Like
- its a team game. That changes the dynamic.
- you use more civs in team games. Letâs say your standard draft in a bo5 format includes 1 ban. In a 1v1 that means each side drafts 6 civs. In a 3v3 they use 32 civs. We have 35 civs in the game.
It may be a team game, but if lithuanians were not a good civ, they wouldnât be picked at all. Lithuanians are performing pretty good now, especially given that they seemed to be designed more as an arena civ (good monks, relic bonus etc) than an open map civ. I donât want them to be overnerfed, I merely think that some aspects of the civ bonuses are too strong, albeit very situational.
You are doing something wrong if you let your opponent to get 4 relics and should be punished for it. 4 relics for other player is already really bad because of gold income for end game and should be avoided.
I havenât heard pros talking nerfing relics even more so I doubt they would support it in balance group where pros give their input for balance changes
5 Likes
if you have to draft 32 civs you are going to have to pick civs you normally wouldnât.
in the two games i have seen them used so far, one game the Lithuanians player (vinchester) was on the losing end of kill to death ratio by a large amount, and the other game it seemed the player was setup to succeed (paladin vs secret). not only was paladin left alone to free boom to imperial age, but his nearest opponent was Nili (easily the weakest secret player) going Teutons (easily the best possible matchup for Lithuanians), but Nili wasted hordes of resources going the worst possible units against Lithuanians (Elite Teutonic Knights.)
1 Like
Game 3 of them being used. Vivis loss to petgunpet - literally lost and it was due to misplay after misplay.
3 uses through the qualification stage. that isnât a lot of use.
okay main event group b. both uses setup for success, pocket position, both lose with unfavorable trades.
Group A - The Max uses them in game 5. he gets pocket, free boom relatively safely, and most his kills are in garbage time against Laaans eco where he sat for like 5 minutes straight.
Viper gets Lithuanians pocket and steamrolls Arbs and Skirms, then raids an unprotected trade cart line.
Nothing in any of those games screams imbalanced to me.
heck the only thing i donât like about these games is that memb is often all over, ignoring where important engagements are going on. i donât know if i will watch the rest of these series if this is how memb casts.
1 Like
I donât see turks or koreans being picked that much thoughâŠ
how is two games a relevant sample? Itâs like saying that i played once arabia with turks and won, so they must be fineâŠ
Anyway, itâs pointless to discuss now, letâs wait and see what the next patch brings, it should be out in a matter of days. Then we can continue discussing based on the changes made there. As I said before, I doubt that the devs changed the relic bonus yet, but I think we will see changes to the leitis cost and maybe some minor buff to make up for that.
i went over the rest of the games too so far.
iâd gladly trade 10g increase for 10 food decrease.
I onestly canât see why lithuanians should lose the +4 attack with relics, or the paladins upgrade.
Itâs already debatable that the trade of faster attack for paladins of the Bulgarians is a buff, but why nerf the lith paladins, there are only 4 civs with over the top paladins, franks, cumans, lith and now teutons.
In my opinion, of all other bonus, the Lithuanians one is the less viable, it have the potential to be the strongest, but itâs the only bonus that can be partially or completely negated, also backed by a decent eco, but not that powerful (teutons and cumans have a lot more powerful booming eco).
To me +4 isnât OP, it affects only the knight line, it can be negated by a common practice like getting relics (sometimes that everyone should do) and they donât have a eco that can sustain a spam.
2 Likes
The Leitis benefits from the bonus too
True, forgot to mention it, I meant that the scout line wasnât affected, still, I think that removing the bonus only because some people think that itâs pain in the â â â to gather the relics see a bit too much to me.
Lithuanians should definitely keep paladins. There are too few paladin civs currently anyway compared to AOC
There is 10, there should be 5-7.