Long swordmans buff

I think if you add LS +1 atack against camels, they would become actually a viable “go to” unit
Maybe giving LS and two-handed sword man +1 atack against camells, and champions +2 atack

If you think this is a huge nerf to camel civs, you can also see that most of the camel civs have HC or arbalest.

Any way, what are your thoughts?

go to in what way? against camels? your better off going pikes, which have bonus damage (+18, for a total of 22 damage) against camels and don’t cost gold, or archers, which can murder them from range.


Militia Line are cheap trash counter units. That’s their job. Camels cost gold, so they aren’t really trash units.

and eagle counters. don’t forget that.

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Camel is not very prevalent. Only 12 out of 35 civs have access to camels. This buff is not very useful. Indians may suffer a great hit.

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It could maybe be a way to balance out a camel buff

As things stand camels really don’t need a nerf

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Wouldn’t even come close. Pikes already perform way better against camels and dont cost gold.

Giving the swordsman line a buff against camels serves almost no purpose as they would still be inferior to pikes.


But they have no bonus against scout (do they?).
I would put it a little b9nus against them. Useful against unlimited scout spam in lategame

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Not everything needs a bonus in order to be a (soft-)counter.
It’s just that the stats of a Champion match up well against a Hussar.


IMO, +1 melee armor for LS and THS is better +1 bonus atk against camel.


I would like to see that change too, although it may require some rebalancing of 2h and champion upgrades and which civs get champion upgrade. Malay forced levy could also be an issue.

I agree, but at least you make the unit more usable. And +1 atack or its not something that would brake the game in my opinion

If you also buff HC it will be balanced.

Considering the massive tech involved, the low speed and low damage (as opposed to pikes, knights etc) its quite a stretch of the imagination to say champions are the counter to hussars.

Its one thing to be able to fight something head to head, its something else to be called a counter.

I think yall have just heen repeating this “militia line is a counter to scout line” for so long that you think it’s true…

If a magyar gets to imperial and spams endless hussars you’re telling me a briton player can spam champs as their counter? How bad does that sound?


To be fair, I feel like that a lot of the difficulties in balancing longswords arise from having too many upgrades. From a balance perspective, I think like it would be better to have a buffed longsword (for example with +1 damage and +1 MA) going directly into champion. 2H feels like such an unnecessary upgrade, slowing down the transition and not adding that much of a stat upgrade.

Of course, I’m certainly not asking to remove 2H at this point, just saying that I would do it differently if I could redesign the game from scratch.

Totally agree with you and that’s why I wrote “(soft-)” before my general statement and just wrote that Champions “match up well” against Hussars (which they do). I’d never recommend someone to go Champions in order to counter the opponents Hussars. It’s just convenient that you can go Champions and know for sure that the opponent won’t be able to do well against you by using only trash units. That’s why people refer to Champions as a “trash counter”. It doesn’t mean Champions are a hard counter to every trash unit.

The problem with the proposed buff in this thread is not that it would be problematic for the game in any way. The problem is, that it is so pointless and random, that it does basically nothing for (or against) the game, so there’s no reason to aim for such a change.
It’s like: Let’s give Hand Cannoneers +1 Attack against Battle Elephants. Yeah, sure, we could do that. But it doesn’t affect the game in any way. It won’t even change how those units match up against each other. It just throws in a number somewhere in a unit matchup that’s highly irrelevant. So why don’t we search for something better? And if that’s the best we can find, it’s basically the same as saying there’s no change needed - because in the end it doesn’t change anything. Swordsmen already do good against Camels. They can’t catch up though. With an attack bonus it’s still the same in every way (+ pikes do that already…).

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If long sword and two handed upgrade where both halfed in research time and cost reduced as well, then getting to champions and using these units would already be improved.

Crossbow tech is cheaper than longsword men… Why?

Additonlay we could increase the speed of longsword men and upwards from 0.9 to 0.95 (spears have 1.0 I think).

In late game I would still go hussar skirms over champions…

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