Hey everyone,
I’m currently almost finished with another full playthrough of all the campaigns/battles available for single player. Recently, I’ve finished V&V again, which has seen quite a few changes in the last few patches. Just from what I’m reading in the community, a lot of people haven’t really bothered to re-play the scenarios to see how these changes impact the player experience, so this is kind of a re-review, in case you might be interested in looking at the expansion again - how significant are the changes and improvements? I won’t mention all the changes, only the ones that seem significant.
All my comments assume playing on hard difficulty (a lot of changes have made the scenarios easier on lower difficulty levels, and I didn’t test those out).
Let’s start with the one sword scenarios:
Charlemagne: This has seen some of the most changes: A new imperial score system offers different ways to go to imperial age and win, making this more of a modal map where the player can pick their own approach to victory - you’re no longer required to find all of the scholars if you don’t want to. The population limit received a much-needed upgrade to 200, and there are some changes to the enemies.
Is the map better now? Yes. Actually, by quite a lot. Propably the most significant improvements across the patches. Things are still quite easy, especially later on in the game, but you no longer need to break all of your enemies to actually win if you don’t want to, so the map is a lot quicker to finish if you’re starting to feel that you’re done with it. The modular design is actually quite well executed. I would rank it in B-Tier, with the main problem being that in the later parts of the game, the enemies just seem too passive.
Finehair: This scenario has received very little changes - mostly, it’s now possible to train battering rams. I only used them against the yellow castle, though since it doesn’t seem to have murder holes, they didn’t have much of an impact. Not a fan of the very slow start and very tiring & long ending of these viking raiding scenarios, so I’m sticking with D-Tier.
Ironside: There are now more wonders available to destroy, and you need to destroy one less of them. This makes the map a little more modal, but I hardly felt the change, to be honest. Still not a fan of this mission style, though I do appreciate the little changes. D-Tier.
Nobunaga: You have to defeat one fewer clan to win now, and they have fewer castles/TCs. This is much appreciated, because, for a 1 sword scenario, the timer was pretty rough depening on your clan choice at the beginning. I played a different clan this time around, and yes, the many options to add a bit to replayability (though it’s not like this was a completely different experience). Actually, the timer was still not super easy to deal with despite the changes. I still don’t enjoy this artifical-feeling type of difficulty, which leads me to put this otherwise decent mission into C-Tier.
Now the two sword missions:
Drake: Not a lot was changed here, mostly some of your later allies get revealed to you without you having to find them on the map. I like that this map is a bit shorter, but I think the setting doesn’t feel like the middle ages anymore, and having to keep watch on 3 units all of the time can get a bit annoying. C-Tier.
Fetih: This one was changed significantly: The timer is gone, and you have multiple targets to deal with throughout the city, so no more rushing to the main objective. Over all, this makes the map a lot easier, and it should propably be moved to 1 sword (as you can’t really lose anymore). The siege is a bit more fun now, as you actually get to really deal with and destroy the big city. Between B- and C-Tier.
Gaiseric: Some more changes here: A lot of the enemies are supposed to be more active, the packed town center rebuilds faster. It didn’t feel too different for me in the end, still quite long, with a pretty slow start. The midgame can be quite fun, though it is a slow crawl. Doesn’t quite overstay its welcome though, at least in my opinion, so it can stay between B- and C-Tier.
Robert: The most important change here is that the timer no longer means an automatic loss, instead every faction turns hostile. Good change imo, but I didn’t get to see it. I was still able to finish this one with a purely economic approach, building a gigantic economy and tributing my way to victory. The idea of the map seems cool, which is why I’m still putting it in C-Tier, but the execution feels a bit lacking somehow.
Temujin: This was my least favorite scenario the first time around, and left me intensely bored very quickly, which is rare for me when playing AoE2. Luckily, it has been made a lot more bearable - you get more villagers, most importantly, and Temujin profits from upgrades now, plus the enemies are slightly more active and raiding the chinese nets you more resources. Still feels like an inferior version of Seljuk, but during my original review I put it in F-Tier, and it’s now been rescued to D-Tier.
Xie An: The new mission, obviously it hasn’t seen any changes yet. I really like this one. It doesn’t really feel very much like many of ther other V&V scenarios. Fun and relatively short, a variety of possible approaches - I’ve got no complaints, really. A-Tier.
Now for 3 sword missions:
Constantine XIII: Very few changes, enemies now get the Artillery tech during their final attack wave. Feels pretty much the same. It is a bit too long, mio - 2-3 fewer attack waves and 1-2 more sidequests would help, I guess. C-Tier.
Karlsefni: According to patch notes more skraelings spawn in Vinland over time now, though I didn’t really feel much of that. Remains the same. This might be polarizing - I enjoy this more than the raiding scenarios, it feels very chill and relaxing to play for me, so C-Tier.
Komnenos: Changes include no more unintentional aggro during the coup in the beginning - which is appreciated, I had problems with that the first time around. You get more res and tax revenue, but unit losses cost more legitimacy. Enemies will upgrade more, fatimids are stronger, varangian guards are weaker, enemies supposedly lose dromons and the turks shouldn’t attack across the bosporus. The last two changes don’t seem to really be implemented, I still got my castle attacked by cav archers from time to time and saw zero dromons.
This is still a very tough scenario, especially early on. The changes are good ones, as far as I can tell. Not my preferred playstyle, so I can only give it C-Tier.
Mstislav: You can now move/assign your villagers to resources manually, and cities stay active during the mongol invasion. I didn’t do much with my vills, but the cities not suddenly stopping production is much appreciated. This was my main problem with the endgame of this scenario, and I already enjoyed Mstislav quite a bit the first time around. Still A-Tier for me.
Otto: Vassals will be more likely to rebel (though they start with more loyalty), which I definitely did feel. Western Francia might now demand tribute with only two illoyal vassals, though I was always able to keep things at one. You start with more units and a market, but your three enemies are and get much more powerful. The latter part is felt a LOT - they now go for real imperial ages armies and will propably crush your vassals pretty easily, so this scenario is now worth its three swords, which it really didn’t used to be. Nice, but stresssful, and the lag is sadly still here. Now B-Tier.
Ragnar: Trade cogs are fixed (well, supposedly - I didn’t get to test them out) and settlement locations are now marked by flares. The latter changes is VERY much appreciated, you don’t have to guess any longer what counts as new land and what doesn’t. Still super long and huge in scale. However, since I didn’t have to play for the achievement this time around, I enjoyed this mission a lot more - this and the settlement changes pushed it from D-Tier to C-Tier for me. Certainly, still not for everyone, and the raids are still super annoying.
Seljuk: Some of your AI foes now have an eco and behave more like typical AIs, there are more imams and villagers to find, and more resources on the map. All good changes. Temujin but good, there just is a lot more play to it, with more options, more action and more development. Drags on a little bit near the end, so I can’t really put it higher than B-Tier.
Shimazu: You can now build rams! Yay! Also, gold loss on unit losses has been reduced, and you no longer need to take out the shogun’s castles, though he has a bigger army. Feels a lot easier now, so I don’t really get the three swords. Limited unit choice lets this stay at C-Tier.
Stephen: Few changes here - you start with a ram, and conquered castles benefit from upgrades. Not much of a difference. Felt a bit easier than I remember, though I don’t quite now why. The final attack was a bit underwhelming and seemed buggy. C-Tier.
Vortigern: No relevant changes on hard, so this is still the way it was. Very difficult, especially wtihout going on the offensive, and moving this to three swords was definitely the right choice. I like it for being a bit shorter and offering a real and somewhat unique challenge. B-Tier.
Quick bonus: I’ve also re-played Chronicles: BFG already, so if you’re interested how the recent changes impact the maps, here you go:
I only really felt four of the changes:
The athenian special naval techs are now weaker after the first scenario they appear in. That being said, once you get a few galleys with Themistocles’ Masterplan researched, they still WILL destroy everything on the map quite easily, so it’s mostly the build-up to get there that is slightly tougher.
Within the Long Walls, prosecuting Cleon is now cheaper on hard, which is appreciated. Love this mission, by the way. Great and innovative design, great writing/history as well.
I am Brasidas, the final attack wave is significantly weaker - once you’ve made it there, you should propably now win. Stil not super easy to get to that point.
The Fall of Athens (finale) - the enemy fleet is now more of a challenge to deal with, as they get resources a lot more frequently. Since I focused on them immediately, I was able to keep them down until building up a naval advantage - still not too difficult imo.
Feel free to share you own thoughts on the changes to V&V (or BFG) and what you’d still want to see to further improve the DLC. You can’t really fundamentally change the maps, I guess, so most of the gameplay style will always be polarizing, though some minor or, for some missions, major steps in the right direction have been made.