Make Donjons and Cuman Feudal SWs count as age up buildings

Honestly, I don’t know why this even needs to be addressed. It should be true by default. There is no reason that Donjons and Cuman Feudal Siege Workshops can’t or shouldn’t be counted as Feudal Age buildings for the purposes of aging up. They make units and/or research technologies, which are the two requirements for a building being an age up prerequisite. I feel like aging up would go a lot more smoothly for the Sicilians and Cumans if their distinctive Feudal Age buildings counted as prerequisites for aging up.


Wait, these don’t count for age up? By the very text given in-game, towers should count, because they are a building only available in feudal age. This feels like bad design, and a new player trap.

I never knew they don’t. Donjon is tower alternative. Since tower doesn’t count, Donjon shouldn’t either. Agree with Siege Workshop though.

Towers only don’t count because they don’t train or research anything. Donjons actually do, though. They should count for consistency’s sake.


They both should count.
Cuman Feudal Siege Workshop is helpful in meeting Imp requirements though. You can start building the workshop during feudal age, then build one of the Castle Age buildings in Castle Age and go to imp earlier.

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I’d rather say they are consistent with the way it is. No matter how you look at it, they are tower alternative.


There is one problem with that argument, though. Donjons do work as a prerequisite for archery range and stables. Towers don’t. The consistency argument doesn’t hold up already. Donjons feel like more like an alternate barracks than a tower. Or, a mix of the two.


You are talking a big nonsense. Dungeon counts as barracks for stables or archery, so it counts as barracks for changing age. So it doesn’t count. And that’s quite normal. :slight_smile:

That the Siege Workshop does not count for the Cumans is however inconsistent.

Well if you want to be pedantic feudal SW wouldn’t apply to aging up to castle cause cause you new two FEUDAL AGE buildings, and the SW is a castle age building that as cumans you just happen to be able to build in feudal.

But yeah, that seems dumb. I agree, if cumans age up to feudal and can build new buildings, doesn’t make much sense why a AR, stable, Blacksmith, and market count, but SW doesn’t. Even if it’s technically correct it just feels wrong.

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The donjon I’m a bit split on. For age up purposes it basically seems to be a second barracks that you can build in feudal. I wouldn’t mind if it counted towards castle age, but I don’t feel it’s wrong as is right now.

Perhaps this is a bit “Karen-y” but maybe report a bug and see what happens.

For all you know the devs intended those to qualify but it got overlooked. That seems plausible to me, especially with the cuman SW.


Unless its a common building it should not count as age up building.Cumans having SW is just the civi gimmick.If we ever get a civi with monastery as a feudal building that too should not count as a age up building from feudal to castle.

Kreposts count as a building to advance to imperial.

If cuman SW would count as an age up building towards castle age it shouldnt also count as an building for imp.

Regarding donjons like @ThePikaKhan said it works like a barracks but you cant build it in Dark age to advance to feudal but in most cases you have a lumbercamp and mill anyway.
For rare cases maybe it could be an option to have donjons available in dark age but without the ability to shoot arrows, i dont know If it should be able train units.


Can you get a donjon in dark age on megarandom?

I’m not really super familiar with megarandom, but I know mayans can build the xolotol warrior if they get a stable in megarandom as they don’t have redemption so can’t convert a stable.

If so…then yeah probably should count as a barracks, and therefore should count towards upping to feudal.

I tested. Dark Age with Dungeon while being Sicilian. You cannot make any units in the dungeon. Building is not used to go from AgeI to AgeII.

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This would depend on if higher age buildings are in general accepted for lower ages.

So, if you start a regicide game and have a castle already, can you freely go from dark to imperial age in terms of building requirements? If no, then siege workshops needn’t count towards aging up. If yes, then it should count.

The arguments for donjon and siege workshop are totally different and not comparable.

This is not me being pedantic, this is me being specific and consistant.

Also, it might be a good idea to put all your thoughts into one comment than to post multiple. You can edit them to include more information.

Why? As has been pointed out, Krepost already counts. Another example is the folwark. That counts towards getting to feudal. Now, you might say that it’s just a mill, but no. It’s not a common building.

Siege workshop is a common building anyway.

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Yeah I hadn’t thought of regicide.

I realize that this would just be differently inconsistent, but if regicide players don’t want a castle to count towards feudal and castle, then the Cuman SW specifically could count toward castle age.

I was responding to different people so I put my responses in replies to specific messages, or just in the thread when not in reply.

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Fortress map

Afaik, Castle don’t count for Feudal and Castle but counts for Imperial. In that case, Cumans Siege Workshop should not count.


I’m not convinced that’s intentional. I’m a web developer. I’m way too familiar with unintended results because much later you added another feature and the thing you did originally at best doesn’t make much sense, at worst breaks.

back in '99, afaik, the only instance of a building showing up before the age in which it could be made is a castle on regicide (excluding the scenario editor or a campaign scenario).

Presumably then they coded it so that it’d say if you’re in a given age you need two of this list of buildings to advance (probably the easiest way to code that), instead of a more programmatic approach of creating a list of buildings that were unlocked upon reaching your current age then using that as the list of valid options.

The simple solution, solved the regicide problem and it just generally worked.

They didn’t forsee 20 years down the road a civ would get access to a building an age earlier than everyone else.

Even with the meso civs not having stable, they wouldn’t need to do anything special for that. Just build two buildings amongst this list of feudal buildings. stables didn’t have to be one of them so the AoK solution worked with AoC but now doesn’t work with ##### and beyond.

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Not sure if Tower counts as a building to age up
But after the change the devs made to Donjons about count as a pre-building for Stables and Archery ranges it should count as a building to Age up
Cuman TC and SW both should count to age up to Castle Age
I even propose that Cumans don’t have to build the Blacksmith before their Feudal SW; and Saracens don’t have to build the Mill before their Market
Those 3 simple thing will buff Sicilians, Cumans and Saracens an it will create very interesting strats in some maps