Greetings fellow Empire builders and Empire destroyers.
I want to ask a question about something that has been on my mind lately: tower rushing and has it been nerfed too hard?
Throughout DE we have seen the devs administer various changes to keep tower rushing from being a source of irritation to Age players, which carried on from HD and Voobly servers into DE. These changes, were specific, like altering Koreans’ Unique techs or delaying Incan villager Blacksmith bonus to start in Castle Age instead of Feudal Age, to universal changes, like reducing Watch Towers’ HP in Feudal Age.
I for one applauded these changes when they came out. But…now…I rarely see towers being used in any online game I play in. I wonder if this means that the devs went too far with their changes to Tower-based strategies?
IMO Feudal tower rush is still strong, and can be difficult to deal with, forcing counter towers, idling villagers, taking away important resources. I do think towers are underpowered in castle and imperial age, they die instantly to castle and siege, and a lot of infantry units even bring them down quickly.
Yes, i would love to see some buffs. Currently they are nerfed into the ground. The strat became not viable any more. It would be great if we can see some buffs to make it viable again. To be clear: being viable and being dominant are two seperate things. I dont ask for them being dominant. Having more viable strategies will greatly increase to variaty of strats you can see, so the meta become less stale.
With the current hills in the front and gold in the front and the second golds too far away, towers could control 90% of your res with minimal efforts, i’d be careful with those petitions, go watch last voobly tournaments on arabia, towers and man at arms combo was seen in most games, it is the most efficient push in feudal to remove map control.
Back to like 4 patches ago they said they rectified the bug that was causing towers not to fire units instead of buildings, but honestly the main weakness is the low hp+the villager bonus vs buildings, few vills can destroy the tower in seconds before even being completed.
But i am ok with that strategy being changed, fighting towers forces you to play mirror and relay on luck(map generation),which isn’t something competitive or skill dependent.
Anyway trushes are now a thing on arena, since the window during the up to feudal time is a great weakness from those who go straight fc, so if you want to see more towers, favorite arena.
On the current arabia it certainly gets some play. And it’s somewhat common vs fc builds. Tbh when I think back to when you got trushed constantly some time ago I’m pretty fine with how it now is.
Yeah I was wandering why trush is common again on arena. It used to be. Then it was dead and now people are doing it again. Personally I stil dont think it’s a good strat if you have a decent civ matchup. Unless you’re cumans or so. That strat is actually pretty insane for them.
Give them back their HP again. There was never a problem with trush, only with whiners who cried that they cant execute their build order blindfolded anymore because they cant deal with APM heavy messy tower rush games.
So, are people like Viper, Nicov and so on who were in favour of tower nerfs are people who can’t play messy games without build orders?
Come on now Deathcounter, it’s time to come up with some new ■■■■■■■■. (Btw, still waiting for you to beat Viper with old Burgundians in 1v1 arabia like you said you could do before getting banned on aoezone )
Nerfing towers were the reason walls had to be nerfed cause you couldn’t punish wallers anymore. It was the reason Teutons, Turks, Byzantines, Koreans needed compensation buffs which made them more boring etc.
What are you talking about in the first place. In AoC Koreans was the worst civ while they still had the best towers in the game. Ergo Towers were even underwhelming back then with 1020 HP.
Of course, I could win Viper on old Arabia and old Burgundians with x2 damage coustalliers. I would just wall up, Tower up and then fast castle with Defensive Castle Drop on Gold and Wood and produce a literal cobra car-like unit. Attack every 40 Seconds when they have charge again - retreat. Rinse and Repeat until win. And they are even cheaper than knights too 11. But we are getting off topic here
Viper and Co called for Tower nerfs after they made Koreans OP by giving them 33% faster-built ones. And more and more Unique units became too strong (Organs, Arambai, Camel Archer, Rattan Archer) so trush into castle was the go-to.
But -33 % HP is ridiculous - the cost increase was maybe fine - but that was needed because tower were buffed. Just reintroduce AoC Towers (Guard/Keep) with original cost and 1000 HP flat.
It all started when they gave Guard Towers and Keeps +1 attack in Forgotten Empires, this was the largest mistake they could have made because it lead to the series of buffs and nerfs of a Building that was perfectly balanced in 2000.
Guard Towers all of a sudden dealt 3 Damage to Mangonels instead of 2 and boom - Too strong without a real counter or stall long enough for the trusher to boom up
Yes, and this is a smart move anyway before unlocking Murder Holes. However it does prevent garrison, so it’s not always the best play during a villager trush.
Agreed, that stone cost makes it tough to justify, competing with castles and TC’s. By the time you are in a position to afford it, towers are going to die to rams/trebs/cannons anyway.
I would certainly like that. It’s a tower/castle upgrade similar to Guard Tower, Keep, Masonry, Architecture, Hoardings, and Arrowslits, which all cost wood + food.
If you both don’t get a warning for Offtopic content like I have countless of times then there is some serious bias in the moderation team of this forum. This post is an answer to the above posts and can be deleted as soon as the other 2 posts are, I just won’t let this defamation of my person in public slide by unanswered. And “Look mbl just trushed” is just to justify “hey, this post is ontopic” - where it’s purpose is cleary just to reply to me without being offtopic
I also barely play Ranked anymore cause I am in elo hell with teammates that are 2,1 TG elo without inflation, while I play with them who hasn’t played even nearly as much as them and therefore didn’t use inflation and for some reason, matchmaking gotta balance me out with 4 better than my allies.
Ranked is unplayable with civ pickers - and I play random all the time, trust me If i wanted to climb i would reach 2,6k - its just not fun playing the same 3 civs for hundred of games. Gosh, how anyone can enjoy the same 2 units in Castle Age and the same 10 civs on an almost not changing map is beyond me. Atleast Nomad sees a greater unit variety and more viable civs, but they gotta made this map from a perfect, balanced, strategic map to basically a not-changing map like Arabia.
P.s tried to play Ranked Nomad or Arabia today (arena banned, nomad favored) - got Hideout, yay
Also what the hell, I doubt that the Balance team
Talks with Pros about the State of Balance anymore
Have an higher Elo/more Skill than me
Keep in mind that they gave spearman line bonus damage vs Camels in path 5.6 because Indians was too strong - Saracens weren’t buffed in that same path (and they were one of the worst civs already back then)
I was one of the first one to call Cumans new buff OP
They buffed hand Cannoneers (for Bohemians) and Turks (+1 PA on Scouts) even tho they have the best Fast Imperial and a very strong Arena winrate
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