Of course, I attempted to attribute the fire outpost idea to someone else, I didn’t know whose it was, and I didn’t intend to take credit. If my Commanderies as Ossuaries suggestion was yours as well then naturally credit to you as well. I didn’t wish to spend the time searching what might have been hundreds of posts to find the original suggestion.
To change something from my original post:
On the fire outposts, I checked and I guess I’d have to suggest 1600hp. I checked and outposts are 2000 already.
De Redin Towers allows towers to train Fire Throwers too (which is useful). Also Sentinels can build towers, which can make more sentinels and Outposts boost sentinels. The larger defensive bonus near an enemy base could be big. In age 2 Sentinels are pretty good because pop efficiency isn’t a big problem.
I think it has its uses. 500w value straight up, but arguably more like 850 (add an Artillery Foundry and a Hospital). I don’t think it’s an op card, but I don’t think it’s bad either. Personally, I play bow/pike Malta more than the Gunpowder Malta and it’s a gp Malta card.
All of that could be merged into commanderies. Even making sentinels being able to build commanderies instead of outpost.
I don´t know if making commanderies being able to make maltese units would be too strong. But it could be tested.
If the commanderies took on the role of outposts (being able to be updated), Malta’s gameplay could center more around its unique building. This would create a mechanic similar to the Russian blockhouse. This change could even indirectly make sentinels more useful.
No, they should remove that card entirely and introduce a new Age 4 card that reduces their pop cost by 1.
Sentinel stats would be relatively balanced for this change as is. Maybe a -10% to damage and HP would become necessary but probably not more than that, if at all.
I think it’s -14 shooting buildings that can produce all infantry, which we exchange for 14 thicker towers that can only produce order units. We also have -4 to -10 defensive buildings. Bad trade.
You say terrible things)
Ahahaahahah! see you didn’t catch the discussion of defensive structures? There was a large discussion. I was even banned for a few days.
Let’s just lower the cost by 1 pop initially. And in the age 4, the card will simply give them rockets. And we’ll stop there.
I’m actually not sure it would be that simple. De Redin Towers sends 2 outpost wagons, 2 Commanderies would be worth too much.
I’ve been playing around with a Governor age up into immediate De Ridin Towers sent to the forward outpost. It gives you basically 3x tower/rax that can train Sentinels and a reasonably strong push. I think it could probably even be used in a xbow/pike rush. The governor would not be able to give 200c and a Commandery wagon, and a version of De Ridin Towers that works on Commanderies would probably only be able to send 1 wagon. It seems like a valid build, I think Lion Heart showed a Pro’s De Redin build a while back, and I think @TheClaymore2004 ran into me today and would likely confirm the build has some potential (he beat me the first game and I got lucky the second, but I continued working on it afterwards). It would be a shame if the build became no-longer viable imo.
Like @Blademaster1215 said, changing Sentinels to 1pop in age 4 at the cost of some tempo would be a good change (Flintlock Rockets currently is a great tempo card, more cost and +45% attack/damage is a pop efficiency upgrade, but more like a large unit shipment for your current army).
Changes I would seriously consider:
• Fire Outposts (less hp/range and more damage).
• Order Combat (added to the Unique Church tech and probably costing a lot, at least 1k f, w, and c).
• 1 pop Sentinels in age 4 after card.
• Remove the attack from Commanderies, and possibly slightly lower their cost (maybe 150w 150c).
Fire Outposts are cool and would still fit with the civ design and I believe history. Order Combat and making Sentinels 1 pop would fix so much for Malta’s late game. Commanderies already allow for teleportation and are stables, no need for the attack.
Yea the build had some potential but seemed pretty weak tbh (even lost to me just building cav archers and shipping some abus. Tbh I think Malta needs a lot of change.
Agreed, though, it did improve a fair bit later on. I think you caught my first two games with that strat (at least in a long while), so it was far from optimized.
Also, comparing it vs Ottomans probably isn’t fair atm. I had some better luck vs French, I beat a guy who felt decent.
I’m guessing the build has more potential for some MUs, and might be better for some of the ones I struggle going xbow/pike into.
Quizá al revés. Que cueste 1 de población desde un principio, tienen casi las mismas estadísticas que un mosquetero estándar, y con el envío de lanzacohetes de chispa (IV) pasen a costar 2 de población. Por el motivo de que esté envío los asemeja a los “Soldados” mexicanos
Btw, probably not a good idea. Sentinels are insanely cost efficient in age 2 when the pop cost is isn’t as bad (you need more houses, but the first two are basically free because of cheaper rax). You have +1 range, more speed, and solid in-base stats compared to a standard musk.
In early age 2, a Sentinel with outpost/TC aura, has more attack, range, and hp than an Ashi (before all the cards and etc) while costing more-or-less the same in Vill secs. You have slightly less speed, but still better than normal speed.
Late game, they could really use a lower pop cost, but it isn’t needed in age 2-3.
So, you wanna take everything that makes Malta, Malta?
I don’t know what is your intention, but whatever that uses the “order immigrants” is just pure rubbish.
Will AoE players ever stop trying to make AoE3 into AoE2?
I’m slightly confused, are you opposed to Order Units? If so that’s fine, but I was suggesting adding an “Order Combat” tech to the Unique Church card for 1k food, wood, coin. That would strictly be a buff to Order units. Probably just +15%/+15%, maybe could even be 10/10 or 10/10 +10% faster training time (mostly a late game buff).
The Fire Outpost thing would be making Maltese Outposts unique, based largely on the Fire Spray card from age 3.
Opposition to changing commandries is fine, personally I’d rather have slightly cheaper stables that don’t shoot over the current ones. But to each his own.
Late game Malta could really use 1pop Sentinels. Early game I’d be a bit concerned that 1pop Sentinels would be too good.
Yes, yes I’m.
Order units work against the uniqueness thatt have attracted so much people to AoE3 and in a harmful way. Even if the roster was more homogenous in OG vanilla, it gave each civ a unique twist: Nederlands lacked Musketeers but had flankeurs, same with Germany but had doppelsoldners and very good Skirms, Spain had a full roster but it was focused in early game, ditto France but it was realed towards Cuirassiers…it created a ecosystem in which each civ was “broken” in some way but the gameplay was focused in playing around your advantages and neutralizing the enemy advantage.
Order Units and yankee immigrants just straight up add other’s gimmick to your arsenal with little to no drawback. This not only make gratiutously powerfull some civs but also diludes the identity of the civs. Why would I like to play Germany if I can get the same with Malta, etc.
I could honestly see either opinion on Order units being perfectly valid here.
Order Units would still be worse than most of the ones from their countries of origin. French Cuirs would (on net) still get +15/15% attack/hp and -15% cost over fully upgraded Maltese Cuirs (assuming the addition of Order Combat, and that Maltese OUs don’t get Royal Guard). Maltese Lancers lack the extra multi, etc.
Having defended the idea, I find your reasoning on Order Units to be pretty persuasive, and I’d have to give it more thought.
