Malta unique unit solution (Final version)

Age of Empires III: DE III - Discussion
1

Having analyzed many topics and answers in my topics, I seem to understand what the main defect of Maltese units is. And I found a super simple solution. Victory is closer than ever.

To begin with, the entire Maltese economy should be adjusted to 80 vils and not 105 as it is now.

Further the entire defective trinity receives combined armor. AoE3_DE_icon_resist_handAoE3_DE_icon_resist_ranged
The Hospitaller and Sentinel gain 20% ranged armor, and the Fire Thrower gains 20% melee armor. Initially. Without any cards. Straight from the barracks at age 2.

For those who like to yell about so-called “early efficiency”:

  1. 20 sentinels + outpost + depot VS 27 regular musks (20 + 2 houses cost + outpost cost + depot cost + wood gather slowly than other resourses)

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    It’s just not work. This is in addition to all my other posts on this topic.

  2. Also worth noting is one 1300 elo dude whom I often met in ranked games.

    Screenshot 2024-06-14 031554
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    His deck contains two gold production cards and he plays through a dragoon/falconet/fixed gun mix.
    Yes, there are also rockets and an infinite fire throwers on his deck, but I have never seen him build them.
    It’s funny that I, the same Malta player from the release of KoM, do not use Maltese units (I play through cassador/dragoon/culverin). And I can explain why.
    Look here.
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    20240614035751_1
    casualties: 36 population
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    20240614040151_1
    casualties: 14 population
    In the first case, the army is forced to retreat, but in the second it can continue to attack.
    As I already said, only the classic European model works in this game.

Special treatment

  1. Hospitaller -40 resourses cost
  2. Fire thrower +25 base hp; +5 melee dmg

3. Sentinel(edited 2 times):
Maltese_Home_City_2_(Flintlock_Rockets)+25% All + rockets
Maltese_Home_City_3_(Wall_Guns)Fixed bonus +7 range; +10% damage |OR| +3 range; +25% dmg
Passive_defender_aura +25%
Complete!!!

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Juan’s first test

Unfair and misleading test.
More threads like these and you will confuse every new player coming into the forums.

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You counted the houses needed for sentinels, but not for musketeers.
Here is another experiment, using houses to balance resources.

Also, not sure about the micro you used in yours, before you said that certain units only work when people play against dumb micro AI, which is why I only test dumb AI against dumb AI, it keeps numbers more consistent, less room for error.
(Also suggested you should put the units in parallel, not that you did…)

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I just found out I can upload small mp4 clips, so here is the experiment 1.0, reflecting on the results of the excel above.

Sentinels win, and if you want to add more musketeers to wipe out the sentinels (If your argument is different resource gather rates), there is no way the survivors can take out the buildings before their demise.

Juan’s second test

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This one speaks for itself.
Remember:

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Spider-man

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Two things I noticed a bit later:

  1. The sentinels only got their area buff after the 1st volley (Because I started a play-test immediately with both sides in range of eachother), so they can fight even better than that (Speed and range makes them kite better too).

  2. The cassadors cost even more than the excel shows, which is even more unfair economically to the fire throwers.

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20 range musket
I dont know if Tilanus ever reads these forums, but if he does, He’s only got 1 hand on the keyboard right now

Same with quite a few other musk falc enjoyers :stuck_out_tongue:

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20 range musks is clearly absurd. So are the other buffs being suggested. Usually when a civ is under preforming (which Malta is) only a few small, targeted buffs are needed. Obviously, Malta in treaty is a much bigger issue, but I think things can be done to at least make that less painful (problem is it might not be possible to fix Malta in treaty without creating a monster in Sup).

For Treaty Malta could use more eco cards. I’d suggest Economic Theory. I’d also suggest changing the age 4 food trickle contained in the mill up to an equal wood trickle to help further supplement the lack of a second factory.

As far as Sentinels go, they don’t need that much. Wall Guns should be changed to “the Sentinel aura now adds +3 range.” 16 range Sents will be great at defending and it might make the church tech for aura from enemy buildings worth it. I’m sure someone will point out that just +3 range is worse than the Swede’s card. I’m aware, but Swe is a musket civ and Malta isn’t one. Malta has other unit comps and don’t need as good of a buff here.

After that, just change FLR to “Sentinels gain more siege range (same as current) and a charged attack, cost 10% more, and only require one pop space.”

Even what I’m suggesting here is on the upper end of what I’d suggest doing in a single patch, just testing stats and buffing or nerfing off of that is a dangerous game. Civs are kinda more complex than how a few features work, it’s how all the features work together.

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I’m holding back with all my might, try not to tempt me to insult you with your manipulations.

  1. They can destroy everything
  2. You don’t know how to count = 27 musketeers are 3 houses, and 20 sentinels are 4 houses.
  3. Even in your manipulation We have 24 musketeers

When I repeated your overkill test, I got the same result. But if you make the test realistic, it turns out completely different.

It doesn’t matter how much more they cost. The main thing is that in the first case the result is 0. And in the second it is 1.

7

I haven’t bothered to respond to any of JuanTheHunter’s post as of late. I’ve already concluded him to be a mix of a troll/noob that likes to gaslight people on the forums.

Ever only slightly giving some miss information to try and create a sense of probability of a narrative; though it could also be that his first language isn’t English but seems to use that in it self as an excuse for cover.

A piece of truth(or something that seems like it) but with a lot of random nonsense.

Is he… the first AI on aoeDE3 forums?!

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Making missiles sentinels with 1 pop is much more deadly than 20 range.

In psychology this is called denial.

9

the best trolls dont even realize when they are trolling tbh

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I don’t know how clear it will be from this video, but the hussars coped with the army of two counter-units better than the hospitallers vs only one counterunit. They are so weak that they cannot cost as much as hussars. Otherwise, why train them at all? And even more so, they cannot cost as much as a doppelsonder.

11

Forgot the 2pop space, here is the revision, adding 2 extra musketeers for the 2 extra houses of Malta:
(Btw, if you want to make the test more annoying, you could consider the Maltese Hospital costs half of a musket barracks, but lets not go there)

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Here is only a 30res difference.

Video:
(30mb max, so had to use lower resolution)

Malta wins, keeping 1 more house, the outpost, and the depot alive (500 resources lost by the enemy, even in numerical superiority).

AND, if my evidence is not to be trusted (Who’s is really?), think on how a 50/50 chance to win for musks or sentinels reflects on a balanced unit roster.

On enemy grounds, the sentinel loses, as the extra cost doesn’t reflect the stats without the building buff, but that’s not what they are meant for, they are meant as a DEFENSIVE unit, think of them as minutemen if you will.

Told you to only use “Dumb AI” micro; in your videos, I saw a lot of hesitation on the AI, and over-killing (Wasting dps).

The way I do it is using both AI’s on human:

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So every individual unit chooses the closest target, without stopping to recalculate.

12

You are right ok. Dont think about this.

Great. We’re almost to the truth. So a 40 pop army with buffs loses to a 25 pop army without buffs. This is madness. Now think about it, to the detriment of whom was this army built? Right. To the detriment of the settlers. That is, while Malta has a population of 70, its opponent has only 55. And how does this affect the transition to age 3? The fact that you get wood instead of gold and food. You’re trying to convince me that it’s a feature, but I only see a disability here.

Even in your video they failed in their “defense” :face_vomiting:. Having experience playing for Canada, I can say that the Minutemen would have been more useful.

13

*Taunt 24

I really have nothing else to say about this, I have no problems using them, I see them neither OP or under powered.

And while the pop space is a bit of a bother in later ages, I still used them to win, even in TREATY of all things, against a fairly equally skilled player (I maxed my pop with them before sending the rocket card, so I got a lot of free resources instead of sending the card and paying for them afterwards, shredded his army, 1 composition :ok_hand:).

14

I won Portugal Sentinel/Culverin against Cassador/Organ in a 40 min treaty ranked game, so what? I also beat the German and Swedish mercenary builds very well with the same composition (same low pop trash but less eco efficiency). At the age 5 they suit me more than at the age 2. Because a 2 pop unit cannot have 5 hp more than 1 pop. This is nonsense.

Although you convinced me of something, but I believe that +45% should be initially at age 2.