The unit has to move forward to attack again then FD kicks in again in a eternal loop, do it instead of trolling, paladin with frame delay looks funny cause it gets stuck or laggy trying to attack ranged units that runs from them, that is what killed mamelukes, i see you are very active in all topics i would like to know your level to understand the limits of your pov.
1 Like
I support your idea making its Frame Delay zero, but the unit is sooooo expensive to be made in 1v1s regularly.
You know that frame delay only takes effect when you task an unit with doing something right? So paladins with a frame delay would easily rekt skirms unless you keep clicking so much they can’t move at all.
1200 DE. And you can call me a noob all you want, I can even send you my recs for you to laugh at, but at least I don’t say stuff like “Cuman FI into champs was OP”(I genuinely asked around on this one and I found no one who had done or seen such a thing) or “archers walk faster than skirms”. You know, stuff that don’t require 3500 TG ELO to understand.
4 Likes
its not because this at all. its because its a nightmare logistically to balance.
mangudai, plumes, conqs, arambai, kipchaks, camel archers and rattan archers from archery ranges available at the start of castle age. huskarls the moment goths hit castle age. the list goes on.
not to mention having to give Goths and Huns new unique techs.
5 Likes
I think its ok its so expensive to avoid over massing and then becoming uncountable for some civs. But the stats should likely be modified to reflect the price (pierce armour frame delay or whatnot)
Yeah exactly. Isn’t it the delay after moving and before attacking a new target? And doesn’t it kick in with every single new target even if you remain stationary?
Exactly and when massed its really hard to micro them they are slow to move so halbs can take advantage of it espeially when you change directions on them. And the worst is its easy to enage them as they always miss in diagonal pattern.
Yes I already read this argument, like you can spam archeries as soon you get Castle Age. You can do it, but you will not can build more TCs, or University for Ballistics. With the eco of early Castle Age not even will can spam UUs from all buildings, plus nerf all TT and cost of UU like I propose in another post for balance them.
Why? To se more UU early in the game. Imo if all UU were more accesible, people will use it more and this is good.
ballistics isn’t something you get right away anyway. and if you’re able to mass up those units in early castle age anyway, you aren’t going to need a flourishing economy because those units all have potential to be game ending.
and if you do nerf the Training time and cost of those unique units, then you can actually maintain production of them and expand your economy while amassing an army of unique units that are very strong.
so which is it? do you nerf the cost and training time and allow them to expand eco while also massing up very strong units?
or do you leave them as is, and they don’t even worry about economy anyway because they have strong unique units to carry them anyway?
this all goes back to what i said earlier.
unique units are literally balanced around the castle creating them.
2 Likes
YEah I think Mameloukes should get faster cause its a hassle to micro them yeah they ar emounted but slow, and get them more tanky wiith added armor I would say +1mele +2 archer. Then they are worth the price.
they are faster then a knight…
1 Like
Yeah, knights are heavy armored unit which makes sense, cav archers are faster too. But this unit is too relient on microing its not worth the time conusmed to micro them
they literally have a lower frame delay then mangudai…
and if you had your way, they would have only 1 less armor then those “heavily armored knights” you mentioned.
the only thing the mameluke needs is a lower gold cost by 10-15 gold.
1 Like
Buddy, when I say nerf TT and cost is not reduce them, it is the oppsite.
Plus, if you spam Mangudais, the enemy will spam skirms, thst are cheaper and fast to train, and impact less in the long term eco.
The UUs created in castle is something that gives epicness but the actual evolution of gameplay makes almos all UU useless because of this…
yes i know. you make them more expensive and longer to mass up. which means your using less resources per time window, which means you can safely expand your eco while pressuring the map.
and that means they can’t leave their base, which gives you map control.
they aren’t useless. they are just an imperial age unit.
I’ll say it again - Making Unique units is a nightmare logistically for balance. you’ve already show that yourself by admitting that they would need higher costs and training times if they were made at not a castle. you think that isn’t going to take a lot of work to figure out the correct costs and training times for 35 units? not to mention two new unique techs? not to mention how do Mayans play against goths who once they hit castle age can just start flooding Huskarls? they have absolutely no answer to them in the castle age. longswords lose and mayans don’t even have supplies for them.
2 Likes
It’s a great unit but the gold cost makes them hard to mass. Halberdiers and Camels are much better at taking out other cavalry despite the fact that mamelukes can hit and run. The only units that it’s useful against are the Battle and War Elephants.
by stating something is a nightmare to balance will never take you anywhere and the problem will still persist. Humanity evolved because we solved the impossible. Im pretty sure spirit of the law would easily make them viable. Again, They are the most expansive UU in the game and still get destroyed by skirms, cataphracts, camels, heavy scorpions, mangonels, archers, halbs, mangudai even win against them or if not extremely close, briton longbowman kills them easily, balista elephants when massed eats them. They have so many counters, they 100% miss target when they move diagonaly, teutonic knight destroy them. Too many easy options to kill them. They take a lot of time to produce at the castle. They die super fast from castle attacks. You cant raid with them since tc eats them. So yeah it’s a beautiful unit and beautiful concept but its useless.
When you put it like that any unit can be useless.
Are they faster than a knight with husbandry?
Yes they are faster than a heavy cav but not by much still hard to micro against paladin. And a unit that needs a lot of micro is a bad unit because you need to focus on then rather than marcoing economy or watching your archers die to a mango shot. I’m not even a saracens main, I just sometime play against mameloukes and find them too easy to kill
are unique units not being seen until imperial age for the most part a problem?
not to me.
spirit of the law is the master of the hypothetical but not the reality.
no. they aren’t. all the elephants are more expensive then they are.
they can run away from most of those and the rest are intended to win. also i don’t think mamelukes long to mangudai. mangudai deal 8 damage fully upgraded and take 25 back a shot. mamelukes also have more health.
so a long range archer beats a unit that isn’t anti archer. whats the big deal?
mass balista elephant also takes a long time to mass up, is slow and immobile, and not a composition many go for.
well yeah, a high defense melee unit should win against an anti cavalry unit.
so do plenty of other units, including the mangudai.
they take no bonus damage from castles, so they die just as fast as any other unit dcoes from castle fire.
but frankly, the post you are responding too was talking about making all unique units made from the stable/archery range/barracks. and has nothing to do with “fixing” the mameluke. which i do believe could use a buff and taking 10-15 gold off its cost is reasonable.
no, but Mamelukes themselves benefit from husbandry, so yes.
and they do a lot of damage to paladins in return.
mangudai and archers in general are laughing at you right now, and mamelukes have far more health then most of those do.
1 Like