Mangonels and NoB not worth using in Age 4

Hello there!

The siege rework arrived and it removed the whole gunpowder identity from Chinese and removed all range bonuses on not only siege, but also on Ships, which cause a huge outrage among the community. Nevertheless due to our constant complains the devs decided to stop nerfing Chinese into the ground and finally buff them, so now they are in a good place. (Remember when they wanted to add +10 second IO train time?)

However, since the recent siege rework, we have noticed that Mangonels and Nest of Bees fall of heavily once age IV is reached. This is obvious given the fact that units gain more health, more upgrades and especially university upgrades to HP and damage.

Many players flood the map with Horsemen or Spearmen in Age IV because these units are cheap and efficient. But even Spearmen end up with so much HP that Mangos and NoB simply don’t deal enough damage to be worth using anymore.

Now Ottomans are released on the PUB and to my surprise the Great Bombard deals area of effect damage, something that every siege unit in Aoe3 does but for some reason Aoe4 bombards and culverins do not.

Great Bombards feel exactly like siege units are supposed to do. If not focused down, they destroy infantry. Just like siege works in Aoe 3.

Mangonels and NoB are not worth using (or rather the risk of using them is too great since a Horsemen switch can simply kill them) in Age IV anymore, therefore I propose the following changes:

  • Mangonels and NoB now benefit from ranged attack upgrades, so Mangonels and NoB get +1 for each attack.
  • NoB get the upgrade from Pyrotechnics to go up to 9,6 range instead of 8 range back.

What do you think? We hardly ever see Mangonels and NoB being useful apart from Age 3 against Crossbows.

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Mangos are not used because of springalds, the idea of having a unit countering siege units is dumb in this game, mangos and rams also need upgrades like in age 2 to make them more useful late game.

And what do we do with the culverin? And what do we do against a combo of spearmen/some crossbowmen/mangonels?

I think the game would benefit if bombards and culverins got a very small amount of area of effect damage. Maybe 3-5 for Culverins and 5-10 for bombards, but not more. Right now bombards and Trebuchets are only good vs buildings.

Culverins are already good against units, a normal culverin does 80 damage. A royal culverin does close to 100 damage while also oneshotting most siege units.

Royal Culverins are a sleeper OP unit but most people fail to realize this, since it oneshots springalds and not all civs have access to culverins. I would have to check but it might even be able to oneshot culverins, but I’m not sure.

You build the same units and adjust your production on the fly.

If you are French your crossbows can just tank/kite the Spearmen with 8 melee armor and you build Horsemen against Mangos.

If you are english depending on the number of Mangonels you can snipe infantry units, retreat and keep healing your Longbows inbetween Mangonel volleys.

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