I’m very opinionated about the historical aspects that could have been better depicted, but, from the gameplay perspective, what do you think are the main issues? I.E, is almost universally agreed that Chinacos have no weakness, they simply can do anything without any drawback: they aren’t weak, they are good against anything including other cavalry, etc.
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Mexico has significant balance issues, particularly in the late game, where the balance breaks down. The main issues are:
The Chinaco is a cavalry unit that steamrolls everything in its path thanks to its charged attack; it is effective against both heavy cavalry and light infantry.
The Salteador is an exceptionally good skirmisher—arguably the best in the game in terms of cost-effectiveness.
The most broken aspect IMO is that the mexican own Native units from the age ups do not take up population slots, allowing you to field a monstrously large and powerful army.
The economy is decent to good, depending on which age-up option you choose.
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Chinacos having a multiplier against heavy cavalry is completely busted and unnecessary.
They also look too similar to all the sombrero wearing light cav they get like Cuatreros and Californios so it’s kind of a pain targeting the right units when they’re all blobbed together.
And like USA, getting an inspiring flag on top of all their top tier stuff is gimmicky and overpowering.
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You lost me, sorry? But yeah, Salteador is kind of overtuned.
So like a normal hussar but more fragile? the damage bonus vs heavy cav is small.
But it has shorter range and fewer cards compared to dutch and french skirms…Or Forest Prowler.
Like Inca but with fewer options.
It has never been comparable to a Hussar, which has a 2.5× multiplier against light infantry, a 1.67× multiplier against heavy infantry, and a 1.25× multiplier against heavy cavalry, in addition to a charge attack with an area of effect (AoE) of 2.
It is true that the Mexican player can field an army of 115 soldiers, plus 15 Jesuits and the Aztec units.
That said, Chinacos are so effective thanks to their charge attack that, in certain situations, they can even be used against cavalry. I’m not referring to the Age 2 Chinaco, but rather to the fully upgraded Chinaco.
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That’s after cards, and hussars are just better in pure stats, if you consider cards you must count other civ cards as well.
British Hussars have +40% pure stats and their cards simultaneously boost dragoons, and auxiliary cavalry. Just an example.
Light infantry have low HP to begin with it doesn’t better if it’s from multiplied damage with a bonus or just pure melee damage that’s really high they die the same.
Of course it matters how they are killed—specifically, how quickly they are wiped out. It’s not the same for a charge attack to sweep through an entire line of units almost instantly as it is for a British Hussar to attack you and take several hits to eliminate the same number of units. Just take a look at the Treaty lobbies one day and you’ll see that many of them no longer accept players from Mexico. That’s sad because it severely limits the civilizations you can pick.
As you still need to survive! Life Guards will eliminate the light infantry pretty quickly and still have HP remaining, If you nee AOE there’s always trample mode if you like to micro.
Chinacco’s are just a little more specialised but their defences are actually below average…
I’m not saying they shouldn’t do it, I’m just saying there’s a difference between zero time and 4 seconds, for example.
Chinacos stalemate British Hussars while being drastically better against everything other than light cav.
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In treaty specifically, Mexico is extremely strong. The short version is they have an eco at least as good as a generic Euro civ (while saving 14 pop slots), then they have a very strong cav unit which significantly outperforms vs musketeers in comparison to a standard Hussar (and is basically only countered by Light Cavalry, which is generally pop inefficient in treaty so forcing your opponents to use light cavalry can be a win in it of itself), then they have a very strong skirm, then they can get 12 pop-free conqs, 8 pop-free ERKs, and like 12-15 pop-free Jags for a total equivalent pop of about 150-155. Don’t forget a flag that buffs most of your units and a hero who heals units in combat occasionally.
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Not hugely, but you’re missing the point by comparing units to units . Putting cards into Chinacco’s means not putting cards into other things…If a Brit player goes heavily into Hussars with their cards they’re not wasted on dragoons or auxillary cav…as they share cards. Another example Swedish Hussars are tough and share cards with Hakapelit and Pikemen…
The big cards for chinacco mostly apply only to them and they must compete in the queue to other important cards like the factory cards.
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Only Caballeros and Presidential Lancers are Chinaco focused. And when Chinacos kill everything other than light cav it really doesn’t matter that the cards don’t buff other units.
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If it’s broken when benefiting just one unit, imagine several of them at the same time.
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There was this YouTube video where a guy tested imperial chinaco vs all other heavy cavalry in game, resource wise comparison and they win like 87% of matches pretty balanced to me…Also one think is being forgotten, chinaco as extra range this means they 1st strike other heavy cavalry, they can strike in 2nd row plus they will not trigger musketeer type units melee attack since they outraged them, an average musketeer will do 40 damage on his ranged attack to a chinaco and 100 on melee, but them put musk on melee they get 2nd row attack by another chinaco.
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Yeah, actually, here are the videos. In the first few seconds of the video, you can see how it counters the Lifeguard. Essentially, the Chinaco can act as a soft counter to cavalry, and I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing. What is truly ridiculous, as mentioned, is its charge attack. It literally destroys the first line of musketeers because, surprise surprise, it has an effective multiplier of 1.675 against heavy infantry, considering the 2.5× damage against infantry from lancers card and the 0.67 penalty against heavy infantry.
It’s a shame that this guy doesn’t make videos anymore. It would be worth watching Chinacos vs. all muskeeters units.
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Yeah, I suppose part of the problem is that it can reach 22 range. Without that, it would be somewhat better than the Spanish or French Skirmisher. However, I feel that considering its cost, being 5 resources more expensive, it could be slightly better.
Yessss, these are the videos I saw where the Chicano basically wrecked all the heavy cavalry of other civs. Mexico can really stack their units to the point of overtuning.
Check out this video if you want to see the Cruzob musketeer wreck nearly every other musketeer unit. A fully carded Salteador would do similarly well against most skirmishers except Abus Gunners, I bet.