Maps in big tournaments

Why are the maps of the big tournaments, sponsored by microsoft not part of the map pool / voting for the map pool?!

Currently we have Battle of Africa with great maps. I wish at least some of them will become part of the map pool.


People don’t like maps they aren’t familiar with.

During DE multiple maps are added as new maps and some are them became part of the map pool. Maps like four lakes, African clearing, amazon tunnel, multiple RBW maps, … Are all introduced during DE to the in-game map pool. No one really had an issue with that. I do agree that you don’t wanna have a map pool full with new maps. Introducing 1-2 maps in each rotation doesn’t really seem an issue to me.

Also people will be familiar with these maps if they follow the big tournaments. Being able to play at the same maps as the pros in a competitive setting makes people more engaged with the game.


What do you mean you don’t like seeing Arabia and Runestones every day for the past 2(0) years?

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tournament maps are made by members of the community, not microsoft employees. I suspect that microsoft isn’t comfortable simply taking user-created content and publishing it.
a) they need to give credit to the map creator, which might be hard to define/track down if a map has gone through several iterations
b) quality control. they need to make sure that the map works in all settings. Many of the tournament maps are geared towards one particular size. eg RBW maps were geared toward 1v1 empire wars, you’d have to extend the map scripts significantly to accommodate all other sizes and game modes.
Similarly BOA maps are written for 3v3. they seem to work alright when loading them into, chrazini has done some great scripting there, but i suspect he mostly tested the scripts in the 3v3 setting. So for microsoft to reuse them they would also need to test the map in 1v1, 2v2 and 4v4 setting. I suspect that they might even have a soft policy to ensure every maps is also playable in DeathMatch, EmpireWars and maybe some other mode. so you need to add scripting to remove straggler trees, boars, sheep etc


They have done it what many maps in the past. Four Lakes is just a clone of Cross, which was made by the community. There are many other maps original made by the community that became a ingame map. To add some more examples: Have a look at all maps in the EW ranked ladder (1v1 and TG). Most of them are just RBW maps that are put into the game.

I have heard they have put community maps into the base game without really crediting them. So i dont really know if this is really needed. I would say it would be nice if they did. And just giving someone credit isnt really a big deal. Just post it somewhere in the patch notes and you are done. Sound pretty easy and isnt a deal breaker to me.

I dont see how this is a potential deal breaking? Yes, the devs have to worry about the map gen for other settings then just 3v3 RM. I dont really can see why this is a reason to not try to put these maps in the map pool. Yes, it needs some work, but they could maybe work together with the map maker itself. I have heard (not sure if it is really true) that Chrazini have helped the devs in getting a better Arabia map gen. So it even can be a joined effort.

Microsoft is already sponsoring BOA. So why wouldnt they include the rights to use the maps (for 1v1s to 4v4s and different game modes like RM, DM, EW, …) in the base game as part of the deal. I can see that made sense to me.

the problem with most tournament maps is that they aren’t random. too many of them are basically like playing on explored. the ones with this flaw essentially give every civ the vietnam vision bonus, and it turns the game into a laming festival when that is translated to ladder play

just look at coastal forest for an example. it might be a fun map against reasonable players who are interested in a fair game, but most opponents will just try to steal resources in the opening minutes. and since we have no way to refuse to play against these unsportsmanlike players, it ruins the map

the lack of exploration also kills the main feature of aoe2. it’s okay for empire wars because that mode isn’t about playing RM, but a big attraction of aoe2 is that the maps are uncertain (so that more of the games are about strategy) instead of on fixed maps where you can just do scripted build orders

when the map is the same every time, then people just find the most efficient civ and find an uncounterable strategy with it. on ladder, that means playing a lot of repetitive mirror matches, since the game’s balancing is abysmal. tournaments disguise all these problems with a lot of rules that ladder doesn’t get. such as drafting civilizations, so that there aren’t mirror matches. or by banning resource-stealing in the event rules. but the actual game is out of touch with competitive balance. we just get boar-stealing and endless mirror-matches for DE ladder

but there are tons of custom maps that are much better than what is on ladder. it’s unfortunate that ranked keeps cycling through mediocre maps when there are alternatives.

I am not really sure how maps are different compared to for example Arabia. Especially in team games your are pretty sure where to find your enemy. Even in 1v1 it is most likely to be at the opposite side. Most of the maps just add something new to the standard Arabia play.

Afaik Coastal forest wasnt recently part of a tournament map pool. So i dont really think that is a good example (and i agree it isnt a good map either). Better examples are the most recent new additions of the RBW maps. Just look at map gen of Acclivity, Eruption or Runestones. These map gens seems as random as good old Arabia or Arena.

That being said: Laming is part of every big tournament without rules that forbid laming. Laming is just that strong. It will even happens in Arabia only tournaments. I fully agree with you not liking laming (Me neither, i never lamed in ranked), but that has not mucht to do with the map gen on most good maps.

I am not really suree why exploring is less important on maps like Four Lakes, Acclivity, Eruption or Runestones. Just some examples of good maps that are added to the game in the last years. I really dont see a difference in exploring compared to for example Arabia.

Every map has strong civs. Even on Arabia there are more effective civs and less effective civs. So everything what you said in this phrase is again applicable for the current maps as well.

I am not saying we need all of the maps into the ranked ladder. Some are better suited then others. No doubt about that. Just having a few maps that are the same as in the big ongoing tournaments will make the tournaments much more attractive and let players be more engaged with the game itself. As result users will stay at the game and play even more.

Currently BOA3 is happening, so i used that as example. Recently also T90 League is announced. I havent looked at these maps, but these might also be possible. The same is true for RBW 6, which will happen in october. I havent looked at these maps either. And there will be other tournaments as well. Given all these custom maps, there much be some good ones for on the ladder, shouldnt it?