Mayor point to make Retold up-to-date. Higher focus on base build

Mayor point to make Retold up-to-date. Higher focus on base build.

Sure many years ago Warcraft 3, Battle Realms,
Armies of Exigo and Age of Mythology were cool to play.
But does it hold up for today’s audience expectations?

Leading a handful of units, that were slowly created, doesn’t seem to inspire people any more.
A classic game mode is always welcome,
but we need something logic and reasonable to get people today onboard.

People simply expect more things to do and a more fluent experience.
Sure, there have been some innovations to the genre like unit abilities or their positioning.
But for a classic game, the only way to do it, would be, to get bigger and speed up some steps:

-give more workers at launch
-more resources you can harvest
-higher unit limit

1 Like

Oh I remember armies of exigo… very glad you mention it. Got really quick really unpopular but i really liked the the vibe of the races/civs and the unit-style and the underground mechanic also looked quite nice back then but also suffered heavily regarding broken/unfinished multiplayer as far as I heard and other things. Kinda sad really kinda liked the overall design there (like the troll design) even I overall liked Rise of Legends more (and of course AoM the by far most^^)

Regarding your topic: I think many understand you and where you are coming from and yes it’s kinda important to make it a bit more “accessible” for the younger/more modern audiences.

But i also think AoM is a relative accessible strategy game already.

But as discussed here a couple of times already many me included agree that the pop limit should be improved.

But i don’t agree that more resources/a more complex resource management is helping to attract more/younger ppl.
Even some here and me included would like the idea of having stone/iron etc but again: 1. it would make the game more complex which new mainstream doesn’t like for whatever reason and 2. is ultimately nothing to discuss about for Retold cause Retold builds heavily on the base of the old game and new resources would throw over the complete old/familiar concept and balancing.
But it’s something AoM2 could profit of and reasonable to suggest it for a potential AoM2 but not Retold.

They said they will increase the population limit but they haven’t confirmed how yet.

-more resources
well 1 tree gives like 150 and gold mine 3000
In older games, limiting the resources you can harvest was indeed a thing.
but slowly gain, very fast depleted-able resources
is in my opinion the biggest Achilles feel the RTS genre has

As accessibility issue I see, you give people an army of hungry ants,
and after a while they cant enjoy any longer the game,
as there is nothing left to feed their army and maintain the production.

If we look around what people play its something like they are billions or Anno 1800, sure complex games, but in same time very user-friendly, as you sooner or later figure out how to win and optimize the base build.

I think your perception of what an RTS should be generalizes the genre too much.

The RTS genre spans from Dota where you control a single unit all the way to massive battles in games like Total War or Supreme Commander.
Age or Empires and Age of Mythology where always somewhere in the middle.

It becomes harder to control larger armies without having them be grouped into squads or other formations the way Total War or Dawn of War do for example.
Such large armies would just not feel like Age of Empires anymore.
Age of Empires is about starting small and slowly getting bigger.
You have small skirmishes between 5-10 units in the early game but then over time it grows to 50-100 units.
The same gameplay mechanics would fall apart at 500-1000 units.

What AoMR will likely do is get the unit numbers up to more normal AoE values.
AoM has a lower effective population then all the AoE games but they promised to increase it in AoMR.
We don’t know how much yet but my guess is that it might just be 2x the limit for houses which results in 200 population without Town Centres.

150 Wood per tree and 3000 Gold per mine are pretty normal values for AoE. More on the higher side of things. AoM actually has 6000 Gold in a large Mine even.
AoE3 has 150/300 Wood per tree and 2000/5000 Coin per mine, AoE1/2 have a lot less but multiple piles.
AoE4 has 4000/8000 Gold per mine which is the highest in the series (if you ignore rare AoE3 mines like Salt mines or Diamond mines)

Unlike AoE1 and 2 you can trade with yourself and farms and fish are infinite so you will never run out of Gold and Food. Favour is also always infinite. The only finite resource is Wood and that rarely runs out.

But I wouldn’t mind them increased the natural resources a little.
Gold mines could be 8000 Gold like in AoE4 and Trees maybe 200 Wood.
Hunt could also last a little longer or there could just be more of it.

Those are completely different games.
You could equally argue that more people play Dota, so we should remove the base building and only have fighting with small numbers of units.

1 Like

I would like more food and wood(200 per tree) while gold being even less. I like gold being scarce.

Gold can’t be that scarce because that would destroy balance between civilisations.
Egyptians need a lot of Gold for buildings, they can’t even build farms without Gold.

Also Gold is infinite in AoM anyway because of trade.

1 Like

so i missunderstood you and you meant with “more ressources” a better gather rate? well sure why not i am all for having less villagers and more space for army units. :stuck_out_tongue:

about gold: i agree it would destroy balance if there would be a significant change. but i personally never understood why egypt farms cost gold and others wood. i also think buildings should cost - in a perfect alternative world stone and not gold but maybe we see that in a possible AoM2. cause i think we can be certain that they keep the balance and costs for retold and honestly there are many other things which are more important.

Maybe we should not look only at the design from the perspective
of 1vs1 PvP players, who play it very fast,
but people who simply would like to have some fun and don’t care about balance

RTS is simply a very wide definition, from 10 units in Warcraft 2, till 1000 units in Supreme Commander.
The more units you manage, the more and faster you need resources to handle it.

Maybe in a PVE co-op or city survival mode like in they are billions? Each faction and god gets for it a massive fun super ability and mechanics. Something in that direction. FUN.

PvE survival is always a good idea for a gameode tbh.

Starcraft 2 also had one of those on release, made by Blizzard.
Literally a zombi mode.

AoM has mummies and stuff too so a mode like that could work relatively well.

The engine can’t handle massive amounts of units though so no actual billions, only hundreds.