There is one major issue with every melee unit in this games (except war elephants). All melee units are required to stop moving in order to do any non-torch damage. This alone puts melee units at a disadvantage to the mass efficiency of range units. Most range units also need to stop moving in order to attack but because they are range they can afford to attack then move then re-engage with very high efficiency.
I propose a catch up speed boost be introduced after each successful strike which will reward melee units that are same speed or faster than their enemy target. Also range have an additional buff by which they can shoot a range attack at point blank!! So why shouldn’t a horseman strike an archer and be able to strike again basically immediately after their attack delay??
As is a group of horsemen moving at 1.88 tiles/s (after charge speed has dispelled) will have to be constantly retasked to chase down a retreating mass of archers in order successful run them down. IMO once the horsemen catch up to the archers no additional micro should be necessary to JUST stay on top of the retreating archers.
Another example of this melee having to stop issue which is glaring!!! Is Spearman vs scouts carrying a dear. A Spearman has a 1.25 tiles/s movement speed and a scout with a deer on it’s back has a movement speed of 1.06 tiles/s… so tell me why a full hp scout can effectively get away from a Spearman if the distance from where the engagement started is less than a quarter of a map length to scout safety?? You would think 1.25 speed would easily overwhelm 1.06? Well yes 1.25 does catch 1.06 but after each Spearman strike the Spearman has to catch the scout again?!
Again melee should have a catchup speed boost proportional to their respective base speed. Alternatively you can incorporate a small snare…but I know you dislike the idea of one unit holding back an entire army…
It’s a lot of work to keep melee units on top of enemy units retreating that has similar or inferior speed: either you run ahead of the retreating target or you use a few units to run ahead and consistently pull trick the lagging units after each strike.
I think there needs to be a feature where if an enemy gets hit, it loses its movement speed.
If a unit gets hit from behind, it should take 1.5x damage.
This way retreating players’ units will get higher damage from enemy melee units.
There’s not really any late game melee units. There’s not a single new melee unit available in Age 4.
Yea I’m not absolutely certain but I believe the dev said they don’t want a snare mech? Or maybe it was just they don’t want range units to switch into melee units if calvary were on top of them???
I think the facing direction dictating income damage might be too complex.
I agree a snare (where the unit stroke is inflicted with a reduced movement speed) is one solution…but then you’ll run into pull tricks which brings us back to the same issue. This was the reason they nerfed siege catchup speeds.
I thought also to increase melee range once they engage in combat to elevate the retreat issue but it won’t look good like when abbasid spearman had infinite phalanx. It would work but look very tacky.
This is why I suggest the speed boost after each successful strike bc we already have the speed boost mech in game. With a sufficient speed boost melee would efficiently and effectively stay on top of units that move slower than they. Right now 1.88 horsemen has to catch a 1.25 archer running away after each strike and it can sometimes take longer than the horsemen 1.62 attack delay???
Sure, the shortest range units that use swords, mace, lancers and spears…they all need some attention when engaging retreating units.
yea formation catchup is completely not logical because units suddenly start moving faster out of nowhere xD
Can my melee units get a boost in speed so they’re as quick as pre-patched mangonels?
they move to keep the formation; it is part of the game as intended; according to patch notes now ALL UNITS have a 40% catch up speed max.
I’m suggesting melee units get a catch up after every successful strike in order to stay on top of slower targets and stay within range longer of units with similar speeds.
biggest issue atm is the awful pathing. we know from aoe2 that once that is fixed it makes a big difference on the power dynamic (especially for the vast majority of players aka mid elo and lower)
its a tough call whether melee units in general need to be buffed, or simply wait for the pathing
MAA and knights are already very good for their cost (especially since there’s no FF)
its mainly things like horsemen or land sharks that need specific buffing
Yea I agree, pathing in this game is so awful and inconsistent. There are so many times I ask villagers to garrison inside tower when under attack and they would ******* go around the gold mine and back to tower. Pretty much dying the the process. Especially the siege. Most of the time if you ask bombard to shoot wall it will start going back thinking there is another path to reach the back side and then attack it. Same for Mangonel, sometimes they just refused to move to unit to attack, happens to units as well. I lost one match because my knight wouldn’t attack villager at all. And got outpost up and secured the position.
I disagree pathing is the biggest issue since pathing is a nonfactor when you have a few melee units trailing a set of range units in a open space. The clear examples of that are spearman chasing scouts carrying deer; the scout gets away after each strike??? Same issue with horseman vs archers, which benefits the archers for mass unit hit and runs.
you need to play more then
wait until you have fights where your horsemen engage and then do nothing, never mind attacking a unit that moves away
wait until your siege doesnt fire
wait until instead of shooting your units just move closer
wait until your vils walk like morons
then come back and tell us pathing is a nonfactor
poor example. scouts were nerfed so that you can hard counter with horsemen and your own scouts. its ok if spears dont hard counter FLEEING scouts
if PATHING worked properly, units wouldnt body block and you would engage more units simultaneously. fleeing units have always been a pathing issue in aoe games. about the most retarded case of it is camels chasing down knights in aoe2. camels are meant to be the hard counter to knights, but due to poor pathing knights can escape. the same issue happens in aoe4. you dont need artificial snare, you just need units to work properly
snare create a horde of other issues, if snare were to work on 1 unit, and the rest of the group moves at normal speed, at some point the 40% formation catch up will have to kick in and you accelerate the speed of the fleeing archers. you are going to get inconsistency. nevermind the potential bugs
you write too much off topic… and your assumptions are faulty. The way you correlate “play more” with supposedly seeing your point of view is an example of your faulty logic.
ah? this is an example of pathing? you failed to make this clear… oh maybe I just need to play more and I’d understand that statement, roger!
Also you next example is not an example of poor pathing; shooting units don’t have to path ( the direction your units take to get from point A to point B) if the range units are within range of their target(s).
Actually the Dev on the podcast when they introduced the nerf to scouting carrying deer specially stated they wanted spearman and alike to counter professional scouts tech…
Lastly why are you presenting your pathing issue here?? What about the idea of pathing being a major issue negates the observation that melee units stop moving to attack then have to catch back up to the targeted unit to re-engage into melee combat??
Why are you arguing at all really? Is there like a the Dev can only address either-or, so you have to make sure they don’t address what I claim to be a problem over your claim? Or maybe they should address yours FIRST?
would be nice if units could swing their sword/spear while moving
so much simpler than all this artificial speed-bosting or snare-tactics stuff