I have opened the thread to talk about the balance concerns about Mexican civilization has at competitive top level before a spring patch comes out. I appreciate developers of this game are helping to get a better balanced game for all.
Insurgente are cost efficient and trained fast
This reduces counter play to this unit from certain civilizations such as dutch, ports, germany, sweden and so on. A lot of cost efficient pikes on the front while getting covered with few skirmishers behind is enough to get a strong lead against these civilizations
What should be done?
Insurgente cost increased
Insurgente train time increase
Mexico can adapt to revolt for Central America for a greater economy after making an all in rush, have artillery support quite fast.
This prevents counter play even more and has balance issues, an all in rush followed with a decent villager bonus coming with the revolt and earlier access artillery is way significant let’s take Mexican vs port as reference, as port you have to train musk bow to hold the first all in mexico Insurgente skirm rush, then when you are around 25-30 vills at ports if you managed to not lose any vills, your mexico opponent has already revolted and training huge amount of artillery and pikes combined with other units behind, while you can’t even age to hold it, at the same time mexico player has around 35 villagers economy while you can’t do anything as a strategy for it. All in rush shouldn’t be rewarded with such a strong follow up politician
What should be done?
Revolt costs increased
Villager bonus from the revolt could be reduced
Artillery cost from the revolt shipments increased
Michoacan fishermen shipment is over performing
after making an all in rush, you can get 2 docks up with a decent amount of fishing boats arriving, it is over performing and needs to be adjusted
What should be done?
Michoacan Fishermen delivers 1 dock (down from 2), costs 25 wood for each boat to send
Ok, lets see… Insurgente cost 65 food and thet have 90 HP and 10 MR, and train in 35 secs, comparing them to pikeman which are 40 food and 40 wood, but have 120 HP and 10 MR and train in 27 secs…
Those 30 HP more are around 1 skirm shoot more and 2 musk more, i would argue that insurgente are not too much different than pikeman for cost efficency, and we can clearly see that insurgente actually train way slower than pikeman
Dutch? Really? Dutch actually shut down every infntry mexicans have since they get access to age 2 skirms, and insurgente are heavy infantry so 3 skirms would one shoot a insurgente, while for salteadores they would still have a range advantage of 3 and they trade well with them… The only problem for dutch are chinaco…
Ports can deal reasonably well if they turtle, since their TC will deal with early rush of insurgentes…
Germany is tricky, uhlans can help trying to keep mexicans on the defense for raid prevention, but wouldn’t fare good with insurgente, but would be really strong against salteadores, and soldado would require crossbow… But germans can also get access to black brunswicker in age 2…
Sweden has arguably one of the best counter play, wittelsbach allies in age 2 would give them an amazing anti infantry option, which would also scale with each enemy defeated and insurgentes are just perfect to farm
Which kind of all in? Because either they spend cards to ship units or they make them, which take res…
Also, the artrillery support would require wood for artillery foundry and artillery itself or a shipment, which depending on how you made the all in aren’t really fast to earn
Considering it is so situational, and also limited to an age up i don’t see the problem here, like, you can assume mexicans would go for michoacan age up, and you can see if they actually went with it, in sea map you can adapt to it quite easily by shipping caravels to either close the sea or to contest it at least
Insurgente has faster speed helps them catch and snare most of the hand cav for a long time they can increase it with the card even more, Insurgente can be train in the batch of 10, so in fact 5 Insurgente trains in 17.5 seconds not 35. Early game Insurgente trains even faster because Mexican flag ability helps barracks be built very fast, Insurgente is extremely better than pike in combat to other units, has a very solid melee damage aswell, if you civ lacks a good type of musketeer you are already having a big disadvantage against mexico.
Mexico pikes combined with some hand cav and skirm counters dutch very well. Mexico can also adapt a fast age 3 pressure with falconets covered by pike skirm which dutch will have hard time to counter again. Ports are far from being able to hold the pressure since 20 pikes arrive your base and sometimes siege your 2nd TC before it is even up. Uhlans do nothing against Mexico, Insurgente pikes kill all of them and germany doesn’t have solid option to hold the pressure of mexico since it lacks musketeer unit kind. Sweden is quite worse because skirmishers protecting the Insurgente siege is a quite effective way of handling carolean push. Sweden can’t have any torp placement outside of it’s town center against Mexico, it’s not possible.
Full pressure with around 20-30 pikes followed up by a very fast revolt where you can ship falconet and make full pike, most civilizations get hard time to hold it and the economy boost comes with the revolt is over performingi.
Michoacan age up politician is one of the most popular age up option because of it’s benefits on water maps, shipment is over performing, you can’t kill 2 docks and 8-10 fishing boats with 2 caravels so it’s not a cost efficient push, Mexico can also pull warships and get the water lead while you are falling behind on water, the card is clearly a balance concern.
I don’t understand why people keep constantly complaining about civs like Mexicans and Maltese being OP, when they’re pretty mid in reality, and don’t say a word in the forums about actual OP civs like Swedes. It’s just mind boggling.
He didn’t mention that he was talking about treaty though. I don’t know the meta there very well, but I can tell you that Mexico is mid in 1v1 and Sweden is extremelly OP. Nerfing Insurgentes and incresing the Revolt cost would knock’em to low tier and I doubt that it would influence treaty at all.
Because Mexico has balance issues in 1v1, India, Sweden, Otto are clearly balance concerns and there is no doubt those civs will get a change in the next patch, instead of pointing already known issues, it’s better to point out the ones that are not popular, because Mexico is similar level broken but needs attention otherwise next patch we will have other undiscovered balance issues playing around. It also might not reflect all levels, for competitive top level Mexico is a balance concern.
Every time I watch mexico in a tournament they seem to lose. Never considered them OP at all, it does seem that again you’re focusing on 1 unit that slightly overperforms which perhaps compensates for the soldado being pop inefficient, worse than 2 musketeers and difficult to train early on so still allowing you to have decent anti-cav without relying on musketeers.
It’s not about that, I have listed what mainly makes mexico over-whelming and they don’t have a low win ratio at top competitive level at all, quite over performing civilization that many can’t have counter builds against because of the incredible fast timings, flag ability allows you to build your barrack very fast and the Insurgente is way too cost efficient without a doubt.
I see where you are coming from, goal should be having all civilizations without broken aspects existing, otherwise next month we will have certain fixes while some others remain, that’s why it’s good to point all issues at once and get a balance change for them.