[Minor Natives topic] Post here your ideas for every single minor natives so the devs can look at

You think you know a game and then you find something like this out 1k hours in…

4 Likes

You mean you didn’t know how to see the statistics for each upgrade?
At first I did not know how to interpret negative bonuses. I thought that for example 0.5 was something in addition to base damage.

Sufi Mosque

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The Sufies as such were not a tribe. If not that many tribes were Sufists, which is a different way of practicing Islam.

Current technologies:
Pilgrimage:
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It becomes a passive improvement where every 3 minutes 2 goats arrive without getting fat at your metropolis destination, and you receive 2 when performing this improvement immediately.
(In fourth age it can be improved to reduce the delivery time to 2 minutes).
For the Indians it improves the experience gathering of cattle.
For the Japanese it improves the production of the sanctuaries by domestic cattle.
In case of reaching the limit, a limit of 10 stops resiving them
Fasting
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It’s fine like this, but instead of reducing the resistance points of the villagers, you should rather slow down their creation.
It could become a button in the town center or trading post, where you can toggle between slowing the creation of villagers to get the bonus or vice versa.

I have been researching the Sufis to find out how to include enhancements that make plot sense. Some believers in this doctrine were nomads and good ranchers.

New technologies:

Pasture: Cattle are cheaper.
The Bedouins are expert herdsmen and they know how to obtain resources for cattle in the desert.

Bedouin families: Villagers have more resistance points and better attack.
The Bedouins teach you how to endure the harsh conditions of the desert and obtain its resources.

The statistics of each improvement are left to the discretion of the developers.

They could include a camel fighting unit if historically feasible. That i would like. :slight_smile:

7 Likes

I didn’t know how to see the upgrade stats on a native settlement without building a trading post first.

Nootka

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It is perhaps one of the most useless alliances in the game.

Current technologies:

Nootka Potlatch
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It could cause native trading posts or embassies to slowly generate ‘thumps’.
Nootka War Chief: In addition to unlocking him, it could make him immortal as the explorer.

Note: It had already been considered in the past a unit and a technology for this tribe:

Nootka Knife Fighte
A third unit was planned for the Nootka, the Nootka Knife Fighter. A unit portrait exists in the game files.

Nootka Harpoon
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A Nootka technology called “Nootka Harpoon” was planned. A technology portrait exists in the game files. (suggestion: It could make only canoes fish better for whales).

New technology:
Consult with the commoner class: Natural Resources are obtained 5% faster.
The commoner class talks to the chiefs to assure them that the alliance will be beneficial, giving you persistence to obtain the resources of their region.

In conclusion we can have a new unit, plus 2 new technologies. We could make the ‘Slapper’ spawn for free with a redesigned upgrade.

3 Likes


The upgrades are fine, but I would suggest 3 new upgrades and 1 new unit.

New technologies:

Lever: ‘Maya Holcan Spearman’ gains a ranged attack and bonus damage to cavalry by 1.0. (It also improves his attack on mele)

Mayan trade: (Passive improvement). You have a drip of coins while the alliance is standing.
The Mayans had trade routes through much of Central America.

Limestone mines: : The bastion upgrade is free and moves to the age of trade, and the walls are built faster.
The Mayans will tell you where the local stone mines are.

New unit:

Commoner (Mayan Archer): Warrior with ranged attack who can hunt and is effective against heavy infantry. The Mayans used these weapons for hunting and for battle.

4 Likes

just nerf the Africa natives, don’t buff everything else. the logic of 1. get new content that is overpowered and then 2. demand to buff everything that came before it to catch up, is terrible game design. it produces power creep which leads to a bad, unfun game.

1 Like

Minor natives have needed changes for 15 years. Nobody uses them for a reason outside of the Cree.

8 Likes

Sorry but that is just mediocre thinking (not you personally). A definitive edition should in fact feel that way, with improvements from past elements as well, keeping it fresh and on pair with the new content.

8 Likes

Zapotec

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Current technologies:

All are fine, but change one to make it more attractive to the player.

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Zapotec Cloud People: (Passive Upgrade) You will now receive 100 wood every 4 minutes and receive 100 input when performing this upgrade as long as the alliance is maintained.

New technologies:

Zapotec irrigation systems: The Zapotecs have an ingenious irrigation system for crops
All types of crops produce 5% more.

Cult of the dead in the temple ‘Mictlán’: When the Zapotec warriors die they generate experience for the player and not for the enemy. In the case of your own soldiers, they generate less experience for your enemy and a little for you.

New unit:

Zapotec Villager: Villager who only works in cultivation and creates a bonus area that makes nearby villagers produce more (2% bonus).
The Zapotecs are excellent farmers and they know how to cultivate these lands and they share their knowledge.
Limit of 5.
Cost 200 food - 150 coins.

3 Likes

Wouldn’t African natives only appear on African maps ? So what’s wrong with them being strong ?

It means that the previous natives should be improved accordingly. The Africans are better processed, and the older ones poor in content.

5 Likes

I’ve always thought Nootka War Chief should buff the Nootka Clubman somehow 'cause all warchiefs do that.

He could’ve act like Mansabdar and buff their HP slightly (up to +10%) or just damage or just siege or attack speed. I’ve used him one day in the 50 states challenge for USA and I was surprised he would die very quickly but then I realized he was just 2 Clubmen together with more armor: his tech is basically a (wasted) tech slot to queue two units at once.

Nootka Chief = 400 hp
1 Normal Nootka Clubmen = 200 hp; (*2 = 400hp)

Nootka Chief= 24 hand attack
1 Normal Nootka Clubmen = 12 hand attack; (*2 = 24 attack)

Nootka Chief = 60 siege
1 Normal Nootka Clubmen = 28 siege; (*2 = 56 siege)

So sad. The base natives are the most overlooked feature in AOE3: It looks like no one gives a damn about them.

5 Likes

A big reason why melee infantry natives are bad is because melee infantry is bad. That needs to be reworked first IMO then this can be revaluated. However rather then pick any one group to change I’d like to change the mechanic as a whole.

Realistically if it was up to me, I’d ‘try’ and I use the word try because I like to try and see if things can work, aware of the possibility it might not is that I would remove the ability to train native warriors. Instead you get them in occasion batches of 5 at your military delivery point at a rate that is about effective as a stagecoach. I’d also increase the current limits by about 50% and allow them to shadow tech like they do for the African civs.

This way the natives function as an actual alliance rather then being something you need to spend resources on feeding and also addresses the issue of them being your entire army. I would also increase the amount of techs on offer to a minimum of 4.

1 Like

A big reason why melee infantry natives are bad is because melee infantry is bad. That needs to be reworked first IMO then this can be revaluated. However rather then pick any one group to change I’d like to change the mechanic as a whole.

Are you the Peachrocks from the old AgeSanctuary? Accurate and wise pov!
That is one of the things I dislike in AOE3: The matches are basically decided by goons and skirmishes.

Adding both melee and ranged armor like AOM to some units is something that should have been tested a long time ago along with tweaking the overall in-game concepts that makes hand units useless (speed, armors, range, bonus).

This way the natives function as an actual alliance rather then being something you need to spend resources on feeding and also addresses the issue of them being your entire army

I’ve said several times:

  • Create a new trading post exclusively for Native Settlements: A Native Trading Post (NTP) which would cost less than our Route Trading Posts (RTP). 150wood. It trickles a tiny amount of xp, lower than Church.
    All conditions of a TP apply to both NTP and RTP like “Advanced Trading Post” card.

  • Remove Native Embassy from settlers’ building grid and make it available EXCLUSIVELY as a travois /wagon/rickshaw from NTPs and Town Centers and reduce its cost (50w).
    It makes no sense holding a slot for a situational building locked by the construction of another situational building.

  • Remove “The Inventor” on Commerce Age and give us an actual useful Politician (The Ambassador, The Translator, The Emissary, The Guide…) based on natives : NTP wagon + native villagers, XP resource, healer, random resource depending on your civ, whatever…

Those three points alone would already hit the core of issues and improve them. Then it’s just balance and reworking/adding techs. There is absolutely no reason in spending 200w in a place far away from your base and still wasting 100w to train units closer to to your base.

3 Likes

Yup its me and yes, spending 200w to have a thing in the middle of nowhere that trains mostly mediocre units or even ‘as good’ units is never going to get used in serious play. Only way it gets used at all is if they are broken which is just as bad.

2 Likes

We do!
The idea is to put 5 technologies for each settlement so that it is as complete as those in Africa.
We should create another forum to polish European and Asian cibilisations also in the future.

WOAH MAN!! Nice to see you around man!

I used to be a lurker/ low poster in that forum. I translated the Fan patch 1.2 to Brazilian Portuguese.

2 Likes

SimilarOwl0320 Peachrocks5
Passive enhancements would also enhance their use and effectiveness. Only with the trading post built will you already have a bonus or a constant resource.
Above I put that only by allying with the Caribs your shipments arrive faster and cost less experience. (In case of being demolished you lose the benefit).

This would make them work more or less like the consulate for Asians.

How about my ideas so far?

Comanche

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Current technologies:

They are all good, but I will improve one:
Comanche Trade Language
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In addition to its current benefit, it generates a drip of experience while the alliance is strong.

New technologies:

Plains Hunters: Comanches are expert hunters and give you hunting tactics. (Food collection by hunted animals increases by 15%).

The Lords of the Southern Plains: Horse archers gain a bonus against villagers by 1.
Comanches are fierce protectors of their lands and will prevent invasions at all costs.

New unit:

Comanche Foot Archer: Cheap Archer Effective Against Infantry.

1 Like