Mongols change?

The idea is to make Mangudai more accessible and Nomads more viable.

  1. Stone lasts 30% longer (it is already 15% for Mayans; maybe even 35% or 40%).

  2. Civilization bonus added: Houses do not lose population speed on being destroyed.

  3. Civilization bonus lost: Extra HP on Light Cavalry, Hussar and Steppe Lancers.

  4. Nomads changed: Scout Cavalry and Steppe Lancer lines +20 HP.

  5. Civilization bonus added: Steppe Lancers +0/+1 armor.

Effect of change of HP bonus:

  1. Need a castle for the tech, but light Cavalry isn’t seen in Castle Age anyways.
  2. Scout Cavalry +20 HP
  3. Light Cavalry, Steppe Lancer +2 HP
  4. Hussar -3 HP
  5. Elite Steppe Lancer -4 HP.

The Steppe Lancer armor change is necessary in my opinion. A raiding unit with absymal pierce armor (3 post imperial) is ridiculous. This is a Castle Age compensation for the Steppe Lancer HP nerf in early Castle Age.

So let me get this straight: you’re proposing to take the Mongols civ, a civ whose design already heavily encourages the use of Mangudai, and encourage them even more? Swapping out a free buff for non Mangudai with some thematic buff and making castles relatively more plentiful.

Also you’re taking a civ which is notorious for being able to snipe seige, and giving them more stone?

Yeah you’re gonna need to write a lot more regarding why this change is even remotely necessary and then a lot more on how such a change improves the game balance or dynamics.



Oh, I can’t wait to just tower spam or castle spam my way to victory playing Mongols with such stone. And you nerf their raiding by putting their scout hp behind a tech? (the whole point of the mongols is rush to end the game early) Scouts do not cost gold, they are seen pretty much every age due to that.

The Mayans don’t have cavalry, poor siege, and poor swordsmen infantry. Just good foot archers overall. So, that balances them out.

The Mongols are fine. They are one of the strongest civs in the entire game. They work great in 1v1 and team games. Their hunting bonus gives them a massive leg up in eco. They need no changes at all. What you suggest makes them cartoonishly OP. Nomads was made since the Mongols need literally nothing to buff them.

Okay, they may struggle against late game Goths (and so many archer civs in general). But those are a real outliner. Mongols do well against most civs in general. Because massed, faster firing horse archers are killer units.

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Scout cavalry isn’t affected by the present bonus. You may check it. It is a nerf to light Cavalry. But Light Cavalry isn’t seen much in Castle Age.

1st, because Mongols without Mangudai are dead. They are one the civs which are dependent on their UU in both Castle and Imperial Age. I cannot find another civ which is dependent on Castles anywhere near close to Mongols.

Maybe Mayans, but they also have this covered.

Moreover, Mongols lack a mid-to-late game economy bonus and options.

Then just don’t play Mongols if you think they suck somehow. Simple as. From my personal experience, late game mongols are murder machines. Their onagers rip guys apart.

They can even scout rush pretty early to put a player off balance if needed.


This part is one entity

This part is another entity.

The Incas have a bonus - stone lasts 17.6% longer and is collected 17.6% faster

It’s silly. You nerf their scout raiding potential. Incas don’t have a stable. That’s a huge nerf.

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You have to buy it from a castle. That’s a nerf.

Then it is a buff. Because Scout Cavalry can reach 85 HP!

Having to buy the tech is a nerf. When they get it for free already. Nomads was made since the Mongols need no buff.

Edit: their scouts are already good, even without getting the HP so early before they become scout cavalry.

As seen long ago here.

How many times do I have to tell you???

Mongol HP bonus is “Light Cavalry, Hussars, Steppe Lancers +30% HP” doesn’t affect Scout Cavalry in any way

Yes, please watch the video. I have watched it 7 times or more.

They don’t need it. The Mongols are fine already. Simply leave them as they are. Simple as.

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That reiterates a point I already made without addressing the concerns I listed. Everyone knows the Mongols are designed such that mangudai are basically necessary in reasonably large numbers.

My point is you have not stated why doubling down on mangudai is preferable over alternatives, why the massive stone availability won’t be a problem, why the change is even necessary or how the change improves things.

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Maybe an extra effect for ther Nomadtech. If he destroy his own building he get 20% of the wood back. So if you are at your poplimit you can destroy your houses and get wood back. If you destroy your old Lumberjack for a new one you get wood back. A enemy Mangonel will kill your TC, you can destroy it and get a little bit wood back.

Or it is 10% of the ressources back. So if you delete your TC, you get wood and stone back. If you cant protect a castle, you can delete it with 200HP and get 65 stone back.


Mongols are not dependent on mangudai. They are S tier with mangudai, but decent civ without them.

The thing is that if you lost all your castles you lose, not because you don’t have other viable options, but rather because you have been overrun by your enemy


I bet OP is a mongol main who wants a higher elo but doesnt wanna improve, so he wants his civ to be buffed.


Imagine Mongols without Mangudai for 24 Hours
Get outright turn into ashes by like 90% of all civs.
But well…Mangudai got nerfed so is fine.

as a map creator, any extreme resource-gathering bonus limits our ability to do interesting things

no civ should get 40% faster gathering of anything. i don’t care if it’s sheep or berries or deer or wood or hunting or fishing. 40% is too much

it used to be 50% so at least they improved things somewhat, but it’s still too extreme

if their economic power could be more spread out instead of being entirely about how much hunt is on the map, that would let the game evolve

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