If you push 3 deer and count the 2 Boars, this is the free resources they get.
Compare this to Britons, who get 200f, to realize how broken Mongols are atm.
Hunt bonus needs to be 15 or 20% max, the amount of Mongols abusers is off the charts atm.
2 Likes
That’s not true.
there is about ## #### food available. This usually needs about 40 vill minutes to hunt. Mongols safe 12 Minutes of this. This can be converted to about 300 extra wood.
Which is definitely a strong eco bonus on it’s own. But wouldn’t be OP.
The actual big point is that timing advantage Mongols can get from the bonus, which is very hard to evalueate.
But I kinda agree that the Bonus is overtuned when we compare it to civs like Britons or Franks faster collection rates. Especially as it already affects the fastes available food source on many maps. Remember: Hindustanis got their fish bonus taken away entirely for this very reason.
3 Likes
And btw there would be a solution for that:
Reduce the bonus but make the mongol light cav bonus apply from feudal. When done well it would keep the mongols identy as early scout aggression civ but take away the unpleasant side affects on maps with a lot of hunt.
1200 / 1.4 (increased Mongols efficiency) equals 857, these are the resources that a generic civ gathers in the same time.
The difference to 1200 amounts to about 342, you’re right.
Still this is massively overpowered and needs nerfing, particularly given how on Arabia Feudal Age is basically the only age that matters.
I am sorry, but I am hating on Mongols a lot now.
Best civ on Arabia by far, even Khmer pales in comparison.
Fastest civ in Feudal, this means you will ALWAYS have the initiative (i.e. you get to not wall and have a nice eco while opponent must react).
Incidentally, the Scout bonus complements their game plan very well, you basically find your sheep fast and can scout out the opponent’s base quickly, or find the Scout hiding. Really increased vision in the Scout is something that complements fast uptimes so well.
From there on, it only gets better.
Good in Feudal, where you can do the Classic 17+ pop Scout, or fast Archers with Fletching.
Good in Castle Age, where you get to choose from MANY options. You can do the classic Archers into Xbow + 3 TC, you can do the full +2 Knights spam (cementing the lead you gained in Feudal), you will beat 90% of Knight civs due to Camels. You can even go for a 1 TC approach into UU. Hell, if you’re bored, you can even ## # ranges CA, this is a strat that no Mongols player goes for because the tech tree is overflooding with options already. And of course the infamous FC into Steppe Lancer. You did MAA and Mongols is fully walled and rushing to Castle Age? Too bad, you lose. You go for naked Archers because you predict a FC into SL build? Too bad, he decided to go for a 18 pop Scouts and your build isn’t good vs that. Even if you do guess correctly, he must have a bad map and at least 1 forward resource (Gold or Berries). And even if you do manage to find some damage, it’s not game over like vs say Byzantines, you are merely offsetting a disadvantage that you started the game with and now it’s an even game.
Good in Imp, where they have arguably the strongest deathball on Arabia, basically unbeatable IF the Mongols player manages to get a few Relics.
Good in Late Imp, where they still get something: increased HP Hussar, Mangudai, you can even play Arbalest because they have that in their tech tree for some reason.
Really this civ is so ridiculous, devs sleeping on nerfs hard.
Would like to see the Hunt bonus reduced, SL toned down in Castle Age, and them like Pikeman altogether (so they become one of those “excellent on attack, bad on defense” civs like Turks), and Knight civs can at least go Monk + Knight vs them (Knights are already countered by CA anyway so at least it makes 1 more strat interesting vs Mongols besides full booming and hoping to beat him to Imp which seems the way to play something like Burgundians vs Mongols these days.
Last but not least, it’s one of the best civs for laming.
5 Likes
I agree with a nerf with Mongols. They just feel good in all ages. Mongols was weak in Castle age. But with steppe lancers bonus, the weakness has gone. Previously I asked for locking hp bonus behind UT. But it turns out to slight nerf to 20% hp. This is unfair while Cumans and Tatars can only improve steppe lancers thru UT.
I am not sure if the HP bonus will be delayed or nerf. Perhaps we can remove the camel-line and arbalest upgrade as well.
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Weren’t you the one complaining that my chnages suggested were “terrible” while I was suggesting something to nerf the Mongol Hunt bonus to a reasonable number? Also one of my suggestions is going to be made as well 
That nerf makes them to die 1 hit sooner to Knights and Camels.
Briton also have cheaper town center bonus. Mongols’ economy bonus is only in Dark age.
I’ve read that some people think that as long as the Mongols can age up earlier, their Steppe Lancers will be OP, even without any HP bonus.
The Mongols lack the last barding armor.
Buff xbow and pike upgrade cost maybe?
I am confused about your stance. Cuman and Tatars Steppe Lancers arent considered OP while Mongols one is
I don’t know where you are confused.
The Mongols age up earlier than others so their SLs are unstoppable in the beginning of the Castle Age, which doesn’t change much even without extra HP. (Note that I said this was the opinion of somebody else I had read, even though I think it makes sense.)
Cumans and Tatars have all the melee upgrades, cavalry armor upgrades, Bloodlines, Husbandry and the Elite SL upgrade, and the UT provides effects that make their SLs better than fully upgraded general ones. Mongols have no the last armor, so the HP bonus is somehow to make up for that. Therefore, it is not really unfair to the other two civs.
Why mention the upgrade cost of these two units?
Easier to counter SL and favor xbow play more.
They are unstoppable later on too, until Pierce Armor they are roughly Knights after you account for the lower resource cost, and vs Xbow they are weaker yes, but adding a few Mangonels isn’t hard.
Just remove the HP bonus for Steppe Lancers and leave it for the scout line only. In fact, come to think of it, Scout/Light Cav/Hussar line should have their 30% HP bonus restored to compensate for the Steppe Lancer nerf. Also they don’t need Heavy Cav Archer since they have Mangudai
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This seems to be too much of a nerf. Maybe 30% or 33%.
Rather nerf also Mangudai or Hussar and Steppe Lancers.
Mongols need nerfs, but cutting a bonus in half seems too much.
Perhaps deer pushing should go. It hits Mongols harder to remove it, but overall slows the game down just a little and gets rid of a really finicky part of the game that just makes it harder to get into.
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Swap HP bonus with Nomads. And call it a day…for now.
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