Moors and Berbers

[MatM1996]

@Apocalypso4826

So the Berbers are obviously in the game, and they represent the Berber people of North Africa, but also (allegedly) represent the Moors of southern Iberia in places like Al-Andalus. I thought maybe there could be some justification for having a separate Moors civ. Part of that change would be Genitours would no longer be a shared unique unit, but a regional one, belonging to the Berbers, Moors, Spanish, and Portuguese.

Maybe if they make a dlc of the Reconquista, dividing Spanish into Castilians, Aragonese and Moors/Andalusians it could be…

[SMUM15236]

IDK if splitting Berbers into Moors is necessary. But if you want to represent Al-Andalus,

@Apocalypso4826

instead of having weaker bonus of already existing bonuses, I think you should try more university bonus. Also free Ballistic has the potential to be broken in some pro games.

[TrustyCarp27706]

No need.

[TungstenBoar]

But new bonuses shouldnt be a worse (nor better) version of other existing bonuses. It should be a trade off

Something like units being 5% or 10% cheaper would be better

[SMUM15236]

This is my idea:

Team Bonus

Blacksmith and University gives +10 population space.

Civilization Bonus

• Created villager gives 5 gold.
• University techs cost -60% wood.
• Genitour fires 25% faster. (Since Berbers will get a new TB, Dravidians and Mongols will lose this bonus).

Unique Unit

Can be kept same as OP.

Unique Technologies

1. Knight line food cost -50%.
2. LC +3 PA.

Tech Tree

Missing techs

Barracks - Supplies, Gambeson, Squires, Champion
Range - PT, EA
Stable - Bloodlines, Paladin, SL, BE
Siege Workshop - SO, SR
Blacksmith - Plate mail armor, Blast Furnace.
University - Heated Shot.
Castle - Sapper, Hoardings.
Eco - Crop Rotation, Gold Shaft Mining.
Monastery - Herbal Medicine, Faith, Illumination.
Dock - Fast Fire Ship, Dry Dock.

[Gaudio3342]

I’ve touched on this topic as part of the wider Saracens split topic on my last comment of this thread

Take a read if you’re intrested

[SoullessHeathen]

I just want the genitour to be regional.

Also, the moors are an umbrella term with no ethnological value. They were not any one people or culture, even indian Muslims were called moors.

[Mahazona]

For the west all nomads were tatars even mongols so is moors such a bad term?

[SoullessHeathen]

Moors just means Muslims. We already have the Saracens and their bullshit to worry about.

And it’s not about the name, it’s about the fact it’s meaningless. There is no such thing as a single Moorish civilization, it’s an umbrella term for all Muslims.

The only shared trait between the peoples that were called moors is that they were Muslim, it’s not like with Celts or the Huns, or the Slavs, where it’s a group of closely related cultures that form a greater cultural family. Creating a civilization called Moors is like creating a civilization called Infidels that encompasses every country that has ever gone on a Crusade.

Which is why we hate the Saracens being a shitty umbrella civ too.

[Mahazona]

@SoullessHeathen

creating a civilization called Infidels that encompasses every country that has ever gone on a Crusade.

Didnt arabs call all the crusaders franks?

[Apocalypso4826]

The Georgians did the same thing, I believe.

[Apocalypso4826]

@SoullessHeathen

Also, the moors are an umbrella term with no ethnological value. They were not any one people or culture, even indian Muslims were called moors.

These Moors specifically represent just the North African and Iberian Arab Muslims.

[SoullessHeathen]

@Apocalypso4826

These Moors specifically represent just the North African and Iberian Arab Muslims.

That’s just Arabs and Berbers, and we already have Berbers. So that leaves Arabs, which are already represented by the Saracen in the game. Which to me is just more reason to split the Saracens up between Arabs and Mamluks.

[Mahazona]

@SoullessHeathen

Mamluks

Mamlukes are not a civilization either they are just turkic military ruling over the local population.