More shared UUs

I’m not sure I understand the UI issue, do you mean on the page that lists civ bonuses or the tech tree? I think genitour would just lose the UU tag. Effectively it would be the same situation as Incas, with two UU (Slinger + Kamayuk or Conq + Missionary) plus one regional (Eagle or Genitour).

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The UU icons in the bottom right. Just making it a regional unit at the archery range would be an easy fix for that though, like you said.

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Absolutely more the merrier.

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Portuguese also have a second UU with the caravel. In all honesty, it’s probably the reason why they weren’t the ones to receive genitours in the first place.
I also have to point out that it would make sense for Portuguese to get missionaries and for Spanish to get caravels, Iberia would be complicated to represent properly without removing common units from those factions for balance sake.

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Who knows maybe a future civi might get 3 uus or 2 uus and a support unit.portuguese already have 2 uus and a ub.

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Careful here, it’s a game not-historical accurate
A lot of civs don’t have access to certain units for balance purposes and some have access to some units for the same reason
The Iberian peninsula it is well represented by Portos, Spanish and Berbers, even Goths in the 1000 years that the game is trying to cover
I would explore some other parts of the world before “fix” (or unfix) this neighborhood for historical reasons

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Thoughts on Genitours being a regional UU for Iberia and North Africa:

Berbers: The Team Bonus never really did anything for players allied to the Berbers due to trash units and especially Skirmishers being generally very weak in Team Games (They get countered by the omni-present KTs, Mangonels do the same thing but better, weak offensive capabilities compared to gold unit, etc ), Even in the rare situation were Genitours would be strong the person going for them would most likely be just the Berber one anyways given they have a decent CA focus and are only missing PTs. This is also an issue shared with the Vietnamese TB as well, but that is a different discussion

Overall the TB mainly translated to just a 1v1 bonus for the Berbers and a non-existent one for Team Games, were Genitours to become a regional UU avaliable to Berbers anyways, they would absolutely love having their TB removed and replaced with something that provides a relevant bonus in Team Games (A commonly suggested one I agree with is 25% working Castles and replacing the meh Kasbah UT with something else)

Spanish: This Civ is overall underperforming, a bit weak against Archer Civs and with little strong going for it outside of Conq Castle Play and okayish Tower rushes civ, the addition of the Genitour could serve to alleviate these issues whilst also reinforcing the mounted unit (FU Paladins, Hussars, CA only missing PTs, two mounted UU in the form of Conqs and Missionaries) and trash (Only Civ with every generic trash unit fully upgraded) themes the civ has in an manner that would be perfectly historically accurate. Overall I feel giving Spanish Genitours would be a net positive in almost all relevant ways

Also for those wondering whether 2 UUs and a regional UU would be too much, we already have precendent of such a thing being fine with Incas (Slinger, Kamayuk and Eagle Warrior). Missionaries are also overall a meme unit and not relevant in most situations anyways

Portuguese: A VERY badly performing civ on open maps (43% in Naive Winrate on Age of Statistics, sub 50% winrate against all Civs aside from 10), that also suffers from having an very uninteresting identity on land maps, due to their only unique quality that is consistently relevant on such maps being 20% cheaper Gold Units, as everything else is either too weak (Both UTs, Faster Researching bonus), only relevant for water (Castle UT, 10% Ship HP, Caravel UU) or very niche (Feitoria, Organ Guns).

Genitours would give the civ more interesting and stronger options to go for on open Land, reinforce having both good Archery Range and Stable units theme of the civ (Genitours benefit from both their upgrades), strong late game theme, and just like with Spanish in a manner that would be perfectly historically accurate.

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Lets hypothetically think to give more unit lines to other civis. If you look at historical accuracy
Genitors should be given to Berbers Portuguese and Spanish.
Missionaries Portuguese and Spanish.
Eagle line Portuguese and Spanish,native allies in the new world.
BE line Indians and Persians.
SL line pretty much all of the east european factions huns and persians.
Condottiere Italians Byzantine’s Goths Sicilians.

Caravels for Spanish (that’s what they were sailing in when they discovered the New World)
Battle Elephants for Ethiopians (they famously used war elephants when they attacked Mecca in the VIth century)
Probably Steppe Lancers for Turks, if they’re given to the Persians there’s no reason to keep it from them

I’m not certain all of those are accurate, balanced and interesting though. Regarding the condottiere in particular, I’ve only seen the name in use in Late Middle Ages and Early Modern Era, when the Goths and Byzantines were long gone. As for the Eagle line, I don’t think there’s any need for them in civs with cavalry, and I’m not sure historical allies should be represented in a faction’s tree. Besides, they would maybe make sense for the Spanish, but certainly not for the Portuguese.

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Im thinking of goths and byzantines as part of italy or italian city states.good catch on the turks I totally missed them.

That’s kinda lazy though, those units wouldn’t fit any role for the said civs, especially Ethiopian battle elephants.

Tbh Caravels could be a straight up replacement for the galley line for some civs, if they had a feudal version. I think it would make more sense than having to choose between wanting Caravels or Longboats or Galleons long term. Also makes the civs more unique. And if they are bad in feudal, good. Those civs are too dominant on water anyway.

Getting to choose between a generic unit or UU is like, one of the most basic things in this game. And Vikings and Portuguese are already not that good in feudal age due to the lack of fire galleys/lack of eco bonus, nerfing them in this age isn’t the solution.

Well, I guess galleys could be their feudal version, at least for the Iberian civs. Just like the Polish and Lithuanian winged hussard replaces the regular hussard while keeping intact the rest of the line, they could start out with galleys and upgrade them to caravels instead of galleons.
As for the genitour, maybe it could replace the cavalry archers altogether for Portuguese and Spanish, but it would also necessitate to change the Berber team bonus and maybe change the unit’s skin, since it was primarily a Portuguese and Spanish type of military troops developed in response to the Moor’s cavalry.
It would maybe also mean removing their status as UU, and as such samurai would no longer deal bonus damages to them.

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It is, but on land it makes more sense as combat there is more varied. Right now on water it’s a rock paper scissors and there are no complex interactions, so adding even more units that the only thing they do is fall in the same rock paper scissors dynamic is boring.

Many people, including Ornlu in his latest vid, have also expressed dislike for UUs that are “just better” unit variant of the generic. Like Longbows for example. And I have to agree they are kinda boring. Now imagine if the Longbow was a unique upgrade for the archer line for the Britons on top of Arbalester, things for them can become a lot more spicy in the UU department. Maybe some high armored infantry unit with a small bonus against cavalry or who knows.

Opens more possibilities. With bonuses too.

Exactly the kind of thinking I have with unique upgrades. It’s not necessary a UU, but it still is custom and adds complexity on top of the existing compositions.

So, to sum, since there was some confusion:

Civs could use more:

Regional units (ex. Battle elephants)
Regional upgrades (ex. Winged hussar)
Unique generic upgrades (ex. Winged hussar and Imp camel)
Unique buildings (ex. Feitoria)
Secondary Unique units (ex. Genitours, Imp skirms)
Replacements for generic units (ex. Turtle ships)

Why are Mayans shooting with crossbows and poking with Halberds when they could be shooting with flatbows and poking with spears? etc.

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Maybe the longship should be given to slavs celts and normans too?

I don’t know. Afaik the devs really aren’t fans of changing things with the AoK civs. And the conquerors. With the newer ones they are a bit more liberal, but still. Longboats are something identifying for the Vikings, in the game and in popular media… Berber genitours nobody cares about, but Viking longships people do recognize.

Tbh since we are on that wave- remove monks for the Spanish, make missionaries able to pick up relics, and either have 9 base range, or some mechanic in which they can gain it. Either from Inquisition or a bonus “monastery techs double the effect” or something.

Not a serious proposal… just joking… unless haha…?

The Longbow being just a better archer is especially ridiculous when the civ also has plenty of buffs for archer line and archery range. I kind of like the Britons, but generally speaking I think it’s more interesting to have a good synergy between buffed units and UU rather than having to chose which of them you will recruit to fill the exact same role.
It also doesn’t help that they gave the civ bonus on archery ranges working faster to a civ which doesn’t have access to archery range techs aside from unit upgrades. Goths have Squires (plus Arson is made obsolete by a free bonus), Franks have Husbandry (plus Bloodlines is made obsolete for the knight line by a free bonus, though it’s a weaker version for other cavalry units), Huns have both Bloodlines AND Husbandry, Persians have Gillnets and Dry Dock… I know the Britons would probably be too OP with Thumb Rings and would not benefit much from Parthian Tactics, but I feel like their team bonus is a little bit lost on them.