Ridiculous post.
I don’t mean major buff on the lines of what goths or khmer got, more like 50 extra resources in dark age or getting 1 cheap tech for free, something on that magnitude.
Their wall killing team bonus is good for breaking turtles, but i find they tend to lose in feudal combat just a bit too often.
I agree as a part time celt main that stronghold is very situational at best. You could make a case for buffing it, but if it was buffed to the point of being so viable that it shows up in majority of celt games, then that would make celts as a civ stronger and they are already at the high end of what can be considered balanced, so i dont think going that far would be right.
you can 100% make a case for vietnamese being balanced. I don’t really understand why theyre as low as they are win rate wise. In theory they seem fine to me, i just also see that they tend to lose a lot and thats why i said they warrant a small buff.
I think he probably agrees with me that they’re well above average in general and one of the best civs period on hybrid maps. Probably. I don’t often have to tell Viper that he’s wrong.
The civ happens to have an absolutely bomb Arena boom, but that’s just one of the myriad of advantages afforded to one of the most complicated and dangerous eco bonuses ever implemented in AOE 2.
I suspect it is due to cav civs dominance.
Vietnamese struggle a bit against knight pressure in castle age (not as much as koreans, though) so they dont reach the late game a lot of times.
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Maybe the civ bonuses and UTs of Vietnamese are a bit inconsistent. The civ has a clear gameplan, but isn’t really as effective at it as other civs are at theirs. Probably the burmese wood bonus would have made more sense on the viets, but it’s a bit too late for that now. Free conscription is also a pretty crap bonus all things considered
Yeah, I think the Malay are a great pick. They’re my new goto tower rush civ since the Inca nerf because of the fast age up. Has been working surprisingly well so far.
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That hadn’t even crossed my mind, and I had them as one of the best overall civs without that possibility. But sheesh, yeah, being able to trush a minute earlier probably makes a big difference as well in the potency category.
Imagine the irony of playing against Malay as Incas today, and just losing to the trush as Incas, and then even if you survive the trush, the Malay are just going to obliterate your chances of raiding with eagles forever by having Elite Karambits at their disposal to wipe that up (Karambits are amazing anti-eagle, ftr) and forcing you to push structurally and decisively against a civ with BBC with siege engineers.
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Mmm, 50 more resources at the start is huge, especially coupled with the market and archers bonuses.
A free tech might work, like at the monastery, but I would instead rework their UTs. A second effect for the castle age one, like faster working monasteries, and a bit of a cost reduction for the imp one.
I mean, the only buff that I suggest is including TCs into its effect, so that it helps for late game raiding as well, having a bit of more defensive damage output.
The only change that I would do for viets is changing paper money into giving a 1:1 food-wood:gold. But again just to make the UT a bit more unique, not because they need a buff.
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true, vietnamese kinda rely on the opponent going archers a bit too much and against cavalry theyre quickly out of steam
The wood bonus plus the tanky archers sounds like a plan but they are pretty flexible until castle age. The scout can lure deer instead of scouting and this helps for a scout rush. After castle age it is a different story because they have a not FU cavaliers and their elephants are the worst from the 4 raja civs.
I like the bonus although it is a very tiny one. It is better than a hypothetical free hoardings because you dont require a castle to notice its effect. I think developers gave viets such a bonus to resemble the aztecs aggresive style: aztecs have faster creation speed and lack masonry and architecture (and hoardings) just like vietnamese. However, vietnamese pushes are slower.
If we want to buff them a bit against cavalry and to give more presence to the free conscription a bonus, i would buff elephants training speed, so they can be used as a quick defense or as a bodyguard for the archers in case of unexpected attacks. This buff would stack with free conscription so viets could try a elephant transition in imperial age a bit smoother.
Elephants already train incredibly quick. I don’t have the exact number in my head but all I know is it’s damn fast.
Edit: 16 seconds apiece after conscription, which is four seconds faster than a Paladin or Hussar.
24 seconds (20 characters)
and thats ok to me. Buffing their training speed would be a small buff because they already train quickly. Viets dont need a big buff.
Training elephants in 12 seconds would feel great.
Small changes to already small numbers are big changes.
I would not support that.
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I dare to respectfully disagree a bit, my lord.
Suppose the bonus consist in a 20% training speed buff (, a BIG bonus, on par with Huns bonus).With this bonus, before conscription, elephants would train in 19.2 seconds That is 4.2 seconds of difference. On the contrary, huns would save 6 seconds in the paladin before conscription. With the same relative reduction, the absolute difference is higher when the unit need more seconds to be trained. In the end, elephants would train in 19.2 while huns’ paladins would do in 24. After conscription, the differences are even smaller because conscriptions subtracts more seconds from paladin than from elephants.
Besides this numerical point, I don’t think the bonus would be so impactful. Vietnamese lack the eco power to sustain faster elephant production. And at the end, the elephant power would be the same.This would be mainly useful in 3 situations.
- when you want to train one or two elephants fast. The first elephant comes earlier
- to save some wood from 1 stable when you want to spam elephants
- When you want to mass a lot of elephants and give a surprise to your enemy.
Of these situations, only the third one is dangerous balance wise, specially in maps like hideout. The other 2 ones are not as powerful, although they helps against archers equally than against knights. The saved wood from the second one also would help vietnamese (more wood for a BBC or archers available).
Actually, for these reason, maybe it is better to give this bonus to Burmese elphants, so they could train arrow-sponges faster when they are against archer pressure. And they need the buff more than Vietnamese. I only suggested this for Vietnamese to give the “free conscription” bonus a bit of relevance.
Pretty similar to my latest post but people like your post!
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Wrt the current bonus: start with -1 villager, +50F, +25W
Makes them worse for pros, better for noobs!
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I want to suggest some changes wrt intermediate to pro levels:
Mayans:
→ lose bonus of +1 villager, -50F
→ Archer (feudal age unit) moves 5% faster
→ Crossbowmen, Arbalesters move 10% faster
Chinese:
→ lose “start with +3 villagers, -200F -50W”
→ start with +2 villagers, -125F -25W
Cumans:
→ lose Feudal SW, Battering Rams, TC
→ lose Castle Age Capped Rams
→ Age upgrades are researched at Mill Instead of TC (TC never becomes idle when ageing up), so it is a potential villager lead but also it is fixed and guaranteed
→ Mills have 2x HP, +2/+0/+2 armor
→ Villagers can garrision in houses, mills, lumber camps, mining camps (no stone walls)
Incas: team bonus - walls are built 50% faster (actually 50% not a secret 100% like the present bonus). Remember it is a defensive civilization
Khmer (just for fun)
→ Gain Feudal Age SW, Battering Ram
→ Gain Castle Age Capped Ram
→ Lose villagers garrisioning in houses
Why Khmer for the SW bonus? They don’t need Blacksmith, so they save wood which is critical. It fits with their identity of being the most unorthodox civilization.
that’s more of a buff then it is a nerf, are you kidding me?
what’s the logic behind this? like most bonuses make sense, and i understand the REASONING behind the change, but why the mill?
Assuming we’re talking chinese here, thats actually a very good idea
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