I know folks are going to say ‘build a university’. However, fully fattened sanga generate .5, (.65 I think with the livestock influence trickle upgrade). University costs 200w 200g. University + starting tc = .75 +.75 = 1.5 influence. That is only the same as 3 fully fattened sanga. Wouldn’t it better to buy 4 sanga and research the fast fattening technology which is only 150 resources, and send the sanga cattle infinite resource card as the first card instead of 3 villagers, if your primary goal is to generate as much influence as possible throughout the whole game? Trying to use trade posts + stage coach takes too long and requires map control and constant battling over TPs, with no guarantee of winning these battles. And let’s say university + starting TC is more efficient than just buying sanga. Surely building another TC + university + palace is less efficient than buying sanga.
If you rely on fattened cattle though for influence you’re giving up the main benefit of the livestock market. If you go university you can still sell cattle for wood and gold when needed rather than leaving them to fatten and never trading them for resources. You always want a university anyway for the fast age tech amongst other age up techs you get from alliances, if you ship a palace your first uni near the tc will provide 2.25 influence per second, if you got lucky and there was an in base tp then it’ll be 2.75. Trade posts also provide the lowest increase in trickle for universities so you can build additional town centres in safe locations and just add a palace and uni within range and you’ll still get 2.25 influence, only missing out on an additional 0.5 that you get from a close tp.
You can get both cattle and goats.
You can technically get 2/3 max output of the universities without a TP. So these combined give you a nice and safe output of influence.
Sanga cattle take a very long time to get fully fattened though. I believe it takes more than 10 minutes for a sanga cattle to fatten from 100 to 500 food.
Semi-fattened cattle only trickles 0.15 influence/s. A University with the starting TC and a nearby Palace trickles 2.25 influence/s. If you look at it like this, then a single university is trickling influence worth 15 semi-fat sanga cattle.
It doesn’t seem to take that long, especially when I research the ‘fatten faster’ tech in transition to age two which only costs 150 resources. Building extra TCs and universities and palaces ain’t cheap and seems less efficient than cattle to me, I haven’t heard anyone address my math in my original post yet. Also I think once you get 20 cattle though you don’t receive anymore even your free ones with your shipment or if you try to get more via the 8 sanga cattle card I’m not sure what happens. So might be best to always keep only 19 around so you don’t miss free cattle with your shipments.
That is 800 resources to build extra unneeded buildings (a tc isn’t ‘unneeded’ so I didn’t include it). I could buy 8 sanga for that price, when they fatten I will have 8 * .65 = 5.2 resources, that is more than double. (Granted I have to research ‘fatten quick’ and ‘trickle more influence’ techs. And Sanga are possibly even safer than buildings.
Interesting thoughts! I have played Hausa since the release and I have come to the same conclusion! However, it only starts to pay off at age 3 with the increased yield tech and the 8 cattle card. Therefore to get a good influence boom you need both cattle and universities. Build universities at age 2 and once you hit age 3 you can rely more on cattle.
The reply from @OriginalKnot717 makes no sense because if you cattle boom you definitely don’t give up on using them for trade. Not only will you get the faster fatten tech which helps with that getting livestock value but you can also pair it with the cow loans tech.
However, you can not overlook the fact that universities and especially palaces give you a line of sight and map control. Furthermore, you will quickly reach the cattle limit if your livestock boom which means you will need to expand with universities to increase inf more. Also since you most likely want to make cannons with the influence you will need at least one palace anyways.
I will probably do some more research on the exact numbers and get back here. But it ideas at least seem like tps are a terrible value proposition right now compared to just building another university in terms of influence unless you get stagecoach which is really risky since you don’t want to upgrade your opponent’s tp.
Regarding the math, here are a few numbers.
Sanga cattle seem to fatten at a rate of approximately 0.5 food/s or at a rate of 30 food per minute. You should crosscheck this though, I’m not completely sure since the fattening rate is not shown on the UI.
If Sanga cattle fattens 30 food per minute, then that means it will take exactly 13.33 minutes for a Sanga cattle to fatten from 100 food to 500 food.
If you send the sanga cattle shipments, then each cattle is already fattened to 200 food. Still, it will take additional 10 minutes for a 200 food cattle to fatten to 500 food.
Even if you research “Selective Breeding” tech asap, then the fattening rate for cattle only increases to about 35 or 37 food per minute instead of 30. Again, I’m not completely sure about this but it should be approximately near this.
I also think cattle are more useful for their resource trading mechanic, at least early on in the game. I’m not a good player though so take my words with a grain of salt
Interesting points! However, we cannot forget that they do generate influence even when not fully fattened so even if it takes a long time to get them fully fattened you still get a lot of influence during that time.
Hausa is not meant to get a lot of influence in supremacy. It is a complimentary resource
You misspelled Ethiopia. Hausa has more reliable influence generation by design.
They both same Hausa is a little better but influence is not the major resource for either.
Wrong. Influence is a major resource, unlike export
les civilisations africaines ont besoin de l’influence pour ce qui concerne les technologies d’âge up, les mercenaires et tout ce qui à trait aux indigènes de la carte, de plus je crois oublier encore une ou deux chose.
Also artillery. Which means you basically have to choose between natives, mercs, or artillery. You can’t really pull off doing two at a time.
You do because if you sell a cow you’re delaying them fattening which is necessary to get comparable influence to a university, whether they are 1% fattened or 99% the rate is 0.15 until they’re a 100% fattened. Even with cow loans that just replaces the cow with another unfattened which will take 10+ minutes to reach a trickle rate of 0.5.
Doesn’t the transhumance tech cost 700 resources? That plus fattening tech would equal 850 resources. The tc’s can be built with influence by aging up with hausa and making 2 hausa builders which cost 400 influence and will build from wagons.
If you’re doing such an influence focused build as well you’ll be building influence costing units from the palace, so multiple palaces isn’t a waste of resources it’s multiple places to train units, an artillery foundry and a mini-fort all in 1 and it’s giving a 0.75 influence trickle.
You could also send the card that boosts gathering of mines and trees near universities and boost the rates of all your newly trained vills from the tc’s, now berbers got buffed you could age to commerce with berbers and this card will also buff the salt mine gather rate by 30% for late game which brings the gather rate to the same as a normal mine only this mine can be rebuilt as needed and contains 10k coin.
Il me semblais bien que j’oubliais un truc ou deux
Adding additional resources is already tougher to macro. Hausa need so much stuff for influence while you can just use coin for other civs. Same for Ethiopia. African civs are weak to cannons, they can produce culverin but it is just because they cost influence and often you don’t have it. That’s why I said it is a side resource. However in treaty influence eco can be really high once all things are settled. Hausa has cattle, university when maxed out they work like 30 to 40 extra vills.
en ce cas toute les ressources sont alors secondaire, par exemple si vous n’avez pas d’or vous pourrez difficilement faire les unités qui en coûtent.
It is different. Gold wood and food can be obtained from map. Influence cannot
host a lobby game and select map “mongolia”