the persian bonus makes almost no difference to paladins, all paladins kill FU arbs in 3 hits. (even xbow in 3 hits) and CA in 5 hits (with or without PT) of course there will be other archers that im not gonna run the numbers against
I agree with your logic for vs FU arbs. But what’s your calculation regarding Heavy Cav Archer? generic paladins deals 13 damage to FU Heavy Cav archer and can kill 7 hits against them (Magyars, Tatars, Saracens, Japanese, Indians), and Persian Paladin deals 15 damage and kill only 6 hits.
For Cav archer with lacking Ring Archer armor (Huns and Mongols), generic paladin deals 14 damage against then and kill 6 hits against them. Persian Paladin deals 16 damage and kill only 5 hits. It gives slight advantage against Cav Archer civs.
The current approach for Saracens is like one of the easiest strategies to go for. Go fast feudal, get your walls up, get a handfull of farms, build an archery range, mine gold and maybe also stone, build market and click up. There is very little skill required for doing that while you will have a very good castle time and a good number of archers to upgrade. It’s actually much harder to defend from that than executing it.
It is curious i see a lot of arena streamers and they never choose teutons, i play a lot of tgs at 2500 lvl and i have only seen them twice and they got rektd, teuton paladin is fine, boyar is not, too expensive and it dies easily vs halbs and camels.
In fact teuton is only strong in paper, it is not even used in arabia games, despite their strong economy, cause you know, indian and khmer killed the paladin civs, you still see franks but they also lose vs those 2 civs.
OH NO it dies against the units that counters them by design…
Let’s give them a cost like 60 food 60 gold and see them becoming the most broken unit ever and the Slavs being banned in every team game.
The top tier list again, something hera did and viper just copy pasted it, fortunately the lack of pro and even noob players using boyars backs up my argument, urs only a man that prefers to do organ guns despite everyone knows they are bad.
Personally I think Boyars are a solid unit right now and balanced (and looks so cool), if the issue is they lose against Teutonic Paladins just give them +1 melee armor to both standard and Elite so they can get 7/10 melee armor.
Happy with what, viper is a youtuber, same like spirit of the law and many others every patch he uploads those videos to youtube for every single balance change, nothing to see there, boyar has a terrible unit design, too expensive, inferior to stronger paladin civs, dies vs most common cavalry counters, less hp than paladins making it worse vs ranged units, so yeah boyar has only good stats but none of them are practical for real games, be aware for any game you have from viper making bad units work there are x4 recs of him losing badly with them.
Anyway teuton paladin is fine slow and tankier, boyar is clearly the unit that needs a buff to consistently beat paladins and make the gold investment worth.
I don’t think Zealotry gold cost needs to be -100 because we already did took away some gold cost from Zealotry. As for the Khmer, their bloodlines don’t need to be removed. Instead, the Khmer should get their Onager, Cavalry Archer, and Parthian Tactics removed.
Onager and Cavalry Archers are fine, but I agree with Parthian Tactics since did really Khmer used mounted archers well?
I would reduce the Battle Elephant speed bonus to 10% and make it to affect Ballista Elephant.
I absolutely disagree with the general idea behind this: the Leitis is completely broken, so it has to be massively nerved, for its own sake. Very controversially I think balance is not only a matter of civilisation winning rates! Since we have those sort of statistics everyone thinks civilisations with higher winning rates should just be nerved and conversely those with smaller systematically be buffed; but I say game balance is a way more subtle issue. Statistics are a good thing, but they are not knowledge…
Then the rest of the civilisation being a bit underwhelming the heavy cavalry set aside, I agree Lithuanians should be changed (buffed, redesigned) in some ways.
The leitis is so broken it isn’t seen much in competitive play, even in the arabia style tournament.
balance has always been about civs first and units second. underwhelming unique units are still underwhelming if they are on a good civilization. even when the tarkan was buffed for huns, it didn’t happen until the rest of huns had been toned down.
and that is what i am after. i don’t mind leitis being nerfed slightly, they just need to be compensated. and if they aren’t compensated for the nerf, then other civs need nerfs too.
I disagree, any nerf to the Leitis will just make Lithuanians another Paladin civ, at which point they may aswell not even be in the game anymore, since it is riddled with Paladin civs.
The Leitis, more than anything else the Liths have going for them, is what gives them an unique identity.
They have a weaker Heavy Cavalry that is focused on dealing damage (ignore armour) rather than tanking out Arbalests and Halberdiers like the Paladin does.
I would be against it, to be honest. Redesigning a civ that already has an identity is just a beckoning call for more civs to inevitably be redesigned, until the redesigns do not work anymore, like it happens with MOBAs and Starcraft 2 often.
Oh but I don’t want Lithuanians to be lacking a unique identity, and actually I think the heavy cavalry - paladins included - is all is going on for them, and it is not enough! Which is why I think a small redesign would not be too much.
In general small redesigns are all right in my opinion, but they have to be performed through small changes. For example the Khmer are now quite different from what they were after release. Moreover, Lithuanians are very “young” as a civ, so now is the time.
There already are too many Heavy Cavalry civs whose main trick is Paladins (Franks, Huns, Spanish, Persians, Teutons, Cumans, Magyars…).
The Leitis is one of the most unique units in the game (and an actual UU that is not just an upgrade on a common unit), any nerf to them will see them disappear from the game.
Competitive matches already do not see the Leitis often, and a Paladin + Relics civ will not do well when competing against the much more reliable Franks, Huns and Teutons, specially because the Relic bonus is unreliable, while the other civs have guaranteed bonii.
