My Main Preferred Teuton Changes(balanced to a degree and hopefully solidifies their identity) as well as a Lithuanian change

I would expect them to be that way, particularly since Sicilians’ requires a unique tech while Teuton’s is free yet staggered through the ages.

That being said, I would be curious with crusader knights having a base 4/4 armor and a base 100 hp, 120 hp after full upgrades how it may fair vs sicilian cavaliers. It may require further balance-making before its introduction to the Teutons as their second unique unit - but for imperial age I find that it’s a fine middleground option between cavalier and Paladin. Especially given the lower hp pool and high armor/attack.

With the addition of the crusader knight, changing the +1/1 armor to only effect Barracks units

@moderators a little help here.

Current changes:

changed Garrison +10 to Town Centers +3 attack range and Garrison +10 in Castle Age, added pierce armor to Ironclad
Changed the barracks bonus to be +1/1 armor in total and for the bonus to no longer effect stable units, added crusader knight by replacing the cavalier upgrade and removing paladin, added first scout upgrade.

Removed the switch of crenellations and ironclad to their respective ages.

Removing the extra armour from castle age knights just for flavout is bad.

Its basically nullifying their land buffs

Your other two ideas arent very good either


Their barracks has a perfectly good +1 melee armor in castle age still, and while they’re currently played as a cav civ, they are an infantry civ. Let’s not forget the militia-line buff that’s incoming too - Teutons will have +2 melee armor in castle age from the current generic two hander iterations (it’ll still be +1 in imperial, and still only +1 from other militia-line users, but as a castle age bonus and early before champion bonus it’s fairly decent - and the +1pierce armor in imperial is a better buff than an additional +1 melee armor.

Feels like it’s a pure nerf since now their cav loses armor and have disadvantage on knight wars, while adding literally nothing on castle age infantries (only +1 melee armor, can help vs knight but they still cannot raid and die to TC).

  • They die harder to cav archers now as they lose paladin

  • Castle age longsword is still not worth going for imo

  • They die harder to archer pike siege push too

  • They also die to archer camels now

The balance does not solve the main issue (countered hard by cav archers), while adding some random values on infantries that may make them OP on closed maps (the infantries are not that tanky too). Don’t like the changes.


The addition of the first scout upgrade increases their raid potential and knights are still able to raid. It’s not like they’re losing pierce armor in castle age and scouts will take that job just as easily with better hp and gain a better ability to raid because of it instead of only having base scouts with extra melee armor which really doesn’t help with raiding. As for imperial age the crusader knight would have 120 hp, 7 melee armor, 8 pierce armor and 22 attack. Would you like +2 melee armor on top of that or perhaps for 8 melee and 9 pierce armor? I removed it because the unit itself is easier to balance on its lonesome rather than including the upgraded scout into the mix.

  • Well you normally don’t go light cav at castle age because their combat ability is too weak compared to knight (unless you somehow ran out of gold). Light cav is not cheap: they cost 80 food per one, and spamming them for raid is infeasible for early to mid castle age

  • They have the ability raid, they don’t have the ability to choose where to fight due to the losing speed, that means they will often take a losing fight instead.

1 Like

Despite the balance problem, I really like the idea of replacing some unit upgrade like for the winged hussars. Then, ofc, we may try to figure out how to balance the unit…


That’s fine, they have herbals meds and the ability to hit- run - heal - hit repeat. They’re an infantry civ with cav ability and they can do very well with what they would have with these changes.

  • You cannot simply run away as your knight is slower

  • Herbal meds does requrie a castle which is not available at the start of castle age.

  • Teutons after your change have literally no answer to archer knight/camel anymore (In addition to no answer to cav archers).

1 Like

Even archers, with their slow speed, are able to ‘run away’ a short distance to minimize damage. It’s the same concept - movement in general will help minimize losses, especially for knights. The addition of the first sckut cav upgrade helps tremendously vs cav archers. As for vs knights and camels - their knights would trade evenly with other knights in castle age, and have the ability to utilize herbal meds to reduce losses while utilizing great pikes into the mix. Or just send their infantry to do the job.

Archer is ranged unit, Knight (and Teuton infantry) is melee unit, so you can hit and run using archers but not knights. You can also abuse the unit collision in DE and stack multiple ranged unit in one grid and mess up the melee pathing, which is impossible to be done for knights.

You can use a villager to stop a bunch of scouts from killing another villager by blocking it like one would a boar - this concept is also doable by cavalry in motion. And even then, them simply running away to be healed up is fine without that concept.

  • You cannot save the vills easily - at least not when the scout is blocking the vills too. In fact the scout player should always micro to maximize the hit dealt to vills - the power of speed.

  • Saving one vills isn’t comparable to saving multiple cavs.

Edit: Do you even see a vill saved by blocking the scout using another vill in like any competent games?

I’ve done it enough on my own that I know it’s useful.

I don’t see it used at all in tournament games. I hate to say that but I think your idea of blocking scout by vills are only applicable in low elo where no micro is involved.

1 Like

1100 is average elo with at least somewhat competent players with micro ability.

I mean 1100 elo is where macro player can absolutely win without microing at all - after all, do you even see your skill used at 1400+ elo (or generalize to higher gameplay?)

I will throw you a counter example - RBW5 Daut vs Viper game 2, Daut tried its best to block archer using eagle. Still failed. This shows how difficult it is to block other units when there are any attention.