My military Gurjaras nerfs

Chakram Thrower does no bonus damage to anything being fast infantry scorpions should be enough. Only get scale armour, their spearmen are absolutely pathetic now, and less armour for their castle unit.

Shrivamsha Rider only dodges 3 objects. (Might have other stat adjustments due to that) Camels do 25 percent bonus damage. Remove armoured elephant bonus damage.

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I think the scorpion stuff should be completely removed, it just looks off. Hand thrown discs piercing through multiple targets is just stupid


Other stat adjustments then? Or some other unique unit replacing it? Make this the old unique unit like that Elephant Archer for the Indians? Just make it a scenario only unit?

I don’t think you need to go that far, but I think fast ranged melee scorpion is a bit too much. People say onagers and arbalest but onagers can be dealt with shrivamsha and arbs can be melted if you’re not paying attention for a bit.

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i would like them (chakrams) to have less movement speed but the Civ should get access to Squires in the Barracks. So you need to spend some extra ressources for the unit to become viable. Sure their other Barrack unit would get a bit stronger, but with only spearman and two-handed-swordsman available it should be fine (without blast furnace even).

I’m shocked everytime when i see their fast movement speed without needing a barracks and the squires tech :open_mouth:


Nah the reason they have that speed is because the lack of squires, much like how elite leitis has 16 base attack because no blast furnace.

Better reduce the HP and increase the training time.

You cant remove that, its their whole gimmick


Tbh Im pretty sure of the reason Chakrams are so good is because they are very fast

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i know, thats what i basically said. i want it like i described to make it more expensive for them. it seems a bit like powercreep over existing ranged infantry units (with the super speed right away)

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And then you missed one - remove the sheep bonus. Then finally throw the civ into garbage because no one will ever play it. Then queue up on ranked, and pick the brand new civs like — Franks or Mayans or Britons…

On a more serious note - 25% extra bonus damage is just +2 attack on Camels against knights. And 3 projectiles is too little to be preferred over light cav unless they get a base cost of 50 food. And chakrams don’t get any bonus damage. The one against eagles is just something that all infantry units get because eagles are supposed to be “weak” against infantry.

I’m glad that the devs are doing incremental nerfs and not just killing the civs altogether like they did in the past with civs like Cumans or Burmese. Your suggestion would just do the same to Gurjaras.

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Wouldn’t be the forum if this type of statement wasnt made at some point :rofl:

Are you somehow associated to gurjaras in some way? I just find it interesting you defend them so much after we have so much data on them.

Its just that its nice to see a change in the game. A new civ with new types of units and gameplay being a top civ is refreshing. Poles, Bohemians, Burgundians, Lithuanians on hybrid and so on. If every new civ remains too niche and an underdog to legacy civs that just makes the game stale.

The problem with posts like this is its just suggesting heavy nerfs to a new civ thereby rendering it unusable. What do you think is going to happen if those changes come in. Everyone will forget the new civ exists and start picking Franks and Mayans again. Why should there be such new civs then?

And if some civs getting very powerful bonuses is annoying, then why not recommend an overall balance with strong nerfs to all the top tier civs like Franks, Mayans, Britons which were the predecessors of Gurjaras, Hindustanis but never got an impactful nerf.


you are right but consider that gurjaras are disgustingly OP at the moment, beyond mayan, briton or frank power level. they can destroy everything in 1v1 and are even more disgusting in team games with sheep sharing.

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Yes they’re powerful and hence getting a moderate nerf on their military in the upcoming patch which seems like the right approach to me.
And anyways I disagree with the statement that they’re OP beyond mayans, britons or franks. That might be true only for RM Arabia or Arabia-like maps while Franks, mayans, britons are just more versatile and better in general. Stats of mayans in the six months before the DLC is nearly the same as current Gurjaras for RM open 1700+ 1v1.
As far as TGs is concerned, Gurjaras might be strong on a set of passive maps like Lombardia or Ghost lake but on regular Arabia its still Franks-Britons.

you are wrong tho. they dominate on every map, just check out Age of Statistics
in every category they are on top, especially on arabia like maps

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Go to the site, open the “descriptives” tab. You’ll see that 92% of “open” category are from Arabia. However in general, there are lots of open maps like Atacama, Haboob, Land Madness, Gold in the mid maps. The entire category of hybrid maps isn’t there - Four lakes, Kawasan, Golden swamp etc which got voted quite a lot. Also there aren’t any stats for Empire wars 1v1 1700+ or Nomad 1700+. And these are also categories which are played a significant number of times competitively unlike pure water maps. You need to check for those stats.

This is why I said they don’t “dominate” every map. They dominate the pool of passively open maps - maps where you can wall with very little investment in feudal army and stay in your base safely without much risk for 25 mins. And if being a top-5 on closed maps seems excessive, its totally fine to nerf aspects which are specific to closed maps – like redemption or some other monk tech or removing canons or siege engineers and so on.

This circle jerk is irrelevant. Arabia is played by far as the majority. We know Devs cater to the playerbase as well as the pros(nevermind the civ is more OP the better skilled the player is)

It doesn’t matter even if the civ was junk on every single other map, including closed maps(which it isn’t)

What straws are you going to grasp at next? The nerf is coming. Just accept it.

On a side note, it sounds like FE are taking a bigger role in aoe4 now (on top of 3) so another possibility why things are slower currently


I do accept the nerf and even looking forward to it. I’m just disagreeing when someone exaggerates says it powerful everywhere or recommends extreme nerfs to the point where the civ becomes below average.
Right now there’s no such civ which is powerful on every map and setting. A few like Mayans, Franks, Britons are most versatile but still not the best on “ALL” maps.

I’m glad that FE is not involved. Otherwise these civs will be nerfed to death in a single patch.

this seems largely irrelevant except vs Meso civs? And if anything meso civs could use 1-2 bad matchups, not to mention that Eagles kill the whole Gurjaras tech tree, they kill every stable unit and every archery range unit, and going for Barracks isn’t really viable as Gurjaras.

the problem is that any unit that has some form of increased stats/damage immunity etc. is OP if you micro enough. Which makes it hard to balance both for mid elo and top elo.

For example, the Coustillier was recently discovered to be probably THE best UU in the game, because if you cycle your attacks, and run while the charge attack is resetting, the unit is insane. But if you let them fight in mass battles, the unit is very average. So which should we balance around? Perfect micro, or someone who patrols them in and forgets about them?

This might be too harsh, I hate Gurjaras as much as the next guy, but lacking Knight and Arbalest upgrade is a pretty huge deal. They are still classified as a CAMEL civ, they SHOULD have the strongest Camels in the game. In high level/pro play, the counter to Camel/Camel + Skirm normally is Knights + Crossbows or pure Crossbows. In general, most people won’t really do Pikeman vs Camels, preferring the flexibility of Crossbows instead. So the problem is that you can’t really go Crossbows vs Gurjaras, because Shawarma Riders destroy them, which basically means they can mix Camel/Shrivamsha in right quantities depending on what they see and never build another production building other than the Stable.

I am not sure how to fix this because I don’t think Shrivamshas are THAT unreasonable vs Crossbows given how they are a counter unit, but really nobody is gonna make Pikemen in Castle age because it’s a unit that is very bad at attacking, it can get kited by nearly every unit in the game and it’s very bad long-term for many reasons, and this seems the bigger problem.

In any case if Gurjaras get 25% bonus dmg only, they would need a buff somewhere else, because with 25% bonus dmg I would rather be Byzantines or Berbers, their Stable would be better at that point.

why? I think the damage is fine, what’s not fine is how good it is vs normal units like villagers. It should not have AoE damage and regular non-Pikeman infantry should probably take it down a bit faster. I think Rams could be a bit stronger but Armored Elephants a bit weaker which leads me to believe that maybe -1 base melee armor is the sweet spot (for Indian civs you would have to adjust this with their Blacksmith techs so that it works out nicely).

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My favourite thing about Armored elephant is how it performs vs. villagers. This is what distinguishes it from a normal Ram. So, please don’t nerf melee armor. Nerf its HP, speed or damage if you want, but not melee armor.
I think armored elephant is only a real problem when Gurjaras are using it due to extra bonus damage. The other civs are fine with it.

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