My personal balance change ideas

This is just my personal balance change ideas. Everyone is welcome to like it, dislike it, meme it or discuss about it. My balance change ideas are going to be as close as possible to the historical accuracy and at the same time trying not to make it overpowered or very weak. All ideas are from current 5.8.1 HD(2013) and Definitive Edition reveals.

General changes:

  1. Long Sword now have 1/1 armor

  2. Two Handed Swordsman have 1/1 armor and 65 HP and Champions have 1/1 armor.

  3. Bombard Tower have -1 range and -200 HP

  4. Supplies introduced. (DE. I prefer it having 150f and 100w instead of 150f and 100g)

  5. Crossbowman upgrade cost 225f and 115g

  6. Heavy Cavalry Archer upgrade cost 700f and 450g

  7. Hussar upgrade cost 300f 500g

  8. Separate Farm(+10%). Berry(+20%), Hunting(+30%), Long lasting Hunting food(+15%) upgrade. I know it might break the current meta. But the idea is to have make other open maps like deer heavy maps more viable. Concept is similar to Age Of Mythology and Age Of Empires 3. (Optional)

  9. Tower HP nerf to 700HP and by Castle back to 1020 HP. (DE)

  10. Paladin attack rate fix.

  11. Hero Lancer unit gets +1 range.

  12. Trade Cogs generate 50% more gold.

  13. Herbal Medicine effect increased by 50%. (DE)

  14. All Gates have 0/0 armor while building. (DE)

  15. Palisade Gate cost increased from 20w to 30w. (DE)

  16. Elite Battle Elephant attack reduced from 16 to 15. (But in DE it’s 14. To me it feels a huge downgrade.)

  17. Siege Tower has the ability to attack. Damage output is similar to Malay Harbor docks. -5 Melee Armor.

  18. Every civ has minimum access to Onager now.

  19. Hussar also recieves +1 pierce armor. (Optional)

  20. Elite Skirmisher have +4 bonus damage vs Spearman-line and Imperial Skirmisher have +5.


  1. Their Mill upgrades are 50% cheap. Doesn’t get upgrades for free.


  1. Genoese Crossbowman reload time reduced from 3 to 2. (DE)

  2. They have access to Halberdier.

  3. Silk Road tech takes away gold price of Trade Cart and Trade cog instead of cheaper Trade Cart and Trade cog now. Price reduced by 350f and 250g.


  1. Have Bloodlines.


  1. Boiling oil tech removed.

  2. Immortals tech introduced. It gives 0.5 pop for each Long Swordsman.

  3. Have access to Battle Elephant but no Elite Upgrade(or give them?). I thought Persians are actually Elephant heavy civ in IRL then I thought why not just give them access to Battle Elephant. Ele is something that you can consider to go with them but you have the option to mix stronger Battle Elephant. I think it wouldn’t hurt much to give them.

  4. +5/10/15/20% faster working TC. (Heard from DE that 5% added which is nice)


  1. Trade Cog have +10% gold boost. (countering carrying less gold)

  2. Genitour have +1 extra dam bonus vs Spearman line and Elite Genitour have +2 extra dam bonus. +1 extra damage.

  3. Maghrabhi tech now makes Camel-class regenerates HP at 3 sec/HP.


  1. 15% cheap Military bonus. (DE)

  2. Walls are built faster. (I get the hate of their Tower Rush. I think instead of removing faster Fortification speed. I say give them faster building walls. Still it doesn’t ruin the whole theme of being defensive)

  3. Both War Wagon and Elite War Wagon have -20 HP.

  4. Have access to Bloodlines.


  1. Recieve Herbal Medicine. (DE)

  2. +1 pierce armor for Cavalry per age.


  1. They have access to Steppe Lancer.


  1. Lose Supplies.


  1. Slingers -1 attack (reduced from 5 to 4) (DE)


  1. Doesn’t have access to Camel.

  2. Have access to Steppe Lancer. (DE)

  3. Give Chinese Siege Engineers and Herbal Medicine??? OP much? 11


  1. They have 25/50/75/100% cheap house. It’s a very good eco buff and true to Nomadic theme.

  2. Their team bonus is to give 50% cheaper Trade Carts. Saracens only gets the +3 extra bonus dam.

  3. Market and Blacksmith cost 100w.


  1. Mangudai attack rate is more synced(slower). (Optional)

  2. Have access to Steppe Lancer. (DE)


  1. Forced Levy changes gold cost into food cost. (DE)

  2. Forced Levy cost changed from 1000f 600g to 850f 500g. (DE)


  1. Missionaries heal as quickly as normal Monks. (DE)

  2. Missionaries affected by Husbandry. (DE)


  1. They gets free farm upgrades.

  2. Have access to Husbandry.

  3. Paper Money cost 200f and 200w and gives 600g to every team.

  4. Their team bonus is to reveal enemy position to allies.

  5. Imperial Skirmisher is Vietnamese only now. (I feel this bonus makes some civ like Aztecs are too op with their Skirmisher)

  6. Rice Farm is 30% cheap and built 50% faster.


  1. Their farming rate reduced to 10%. (DE. Although I like their fast farmers. I prefer having a new tech that’ll boost farming to 10% in Feudal like 150f and 150w upgrade. But Slavs having 15% from Dark Age)

  2. Receive Faith (DE)


  1. Team bonus switched to Gold mine reveal on map. (My reasoning behind this for Allied Vision is something that a lot of players prefers to play at start instead of Feudal market. It’ll be better to be set that way.)

  2. Feitoria works by Garrisoning vils. Doesn’t take pop space. More vils you garrison more res you get.


  1. +150w per age.

  2. They have access to Hussar. (DE)

  3. Receive Faith. (DE)


  1. They lack Halberdier.

  2. They have access to Battle Elephant.

  3. Imperial Camel have 8 attack. (I often feel 7 to 9 attack jump is too much and on top of that fire rate, HP and speed boost). 1. Also bring back +1 melee armor and slight buff to Damage bonus.

  4. Their team bonus switched to Camel-line having +3 LOS.

  5. Indians still have their +5 attack bonus. (+5 bonus dam vs building feels too good to be a team bonus.)

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1-2) I think that the best way to improve the militia is to increase its speed from 0.9 to 0.95 or to 1 and improve the PatchFinding. Because you don’t have to lose the essence of each unit. The militia is not cavalry nor can it become cavalry with all the improvements. The militia is militia. What they could do is lower their costs. In the DE version they will do it with supplies (-15F).
3) With the Bombard Tower I have no problem but if it bothers me that the Keep tower destroys a ram faster.
4) 100 is expensive but accessible. They could lower it to 50.
5) 115G is very little. I think it’s fine with 200W and 200G. I would raise the improvement of the Skirmisher (the best unit of the game).
6) Ok! It is very expensive.
7) Ok! It is very expensive and only goes up + 15HP
8) I have no opinion
9) In the last age of empires 2 definitive edition showmatch. They showed that the towers went down to 700HP and 0/0 garrison in Feudal. This will make the game not so extreme when they go towers. Agree!
10) reload time? 1.9 to 1.8 ?. I never understood that, I thought because I had more armor, it moved slower haha
11) I have no opinion.
12) I have no opinion. I never market with boats.
13) Ok !! It is very expensive for so little bonus. Good idea!
14) Ok! that will generate a pressure to build before. Let the game more fun.
15) Ok! now all pros players occupy it to protect themselves or close, with rotation.
16) I think 15 is fine. 14 attacks a paladin.
17) I don’t think it’s necessary.
18) Mmm the Huns the same? The Huns have a giant spam power. I do not have a clear opinion.


  1. The Franks are very good at, maybe they could use this.

2) Ok!
3) Ok! since they do not have camels and relying solely on unity of castles against cavalry is not good.
4) Ok!


  1. Ideal to protect yourself from rams.
  2. I have no opinion.
  3. I think it is not necessary, they already have their elephants and are better.
  4. According to my calculations they could go to 9:40 to feudal with 22 villagers. The normal is 10:10.


  1. I have no opinion.
  2. Ok!
  3. I don’t have a clear opinion. 4s seems fine to me.


  1. free supplies ?. If it’s -15% and -15F, -30% I think it’s a lot.
  2. I have no opinion.
  3. Ok! They have too much life. The scorpions are only 40 HP.


  1. Ok!
  2. Do they need more armor? haha They die very fast with few arrows. They could raise the speed from 0.7 to 0.9, to reach a villager (0.8) haha.


  1. Do you need them? The Huns are already very good.


  1. Ok! -35% + -15F is too haha


  1. Ok! They are not archers haha


  1. Agree. They have Halberdier, good monks and many arrows to stop cavalry.
  2. I have no opinion.


  1. Ok! Although it could be slower 15% / 25% / 50% / 75%
    2-3) Okay! They need another bonus. They are the worst at


  1. Attack speed is fine for me.
  2. I have no opinion.

1-2) woow hard change. But it’s okay.


  1. Ok!
  2. Ok!


  1. And francs, right? haha.
  2. Ok!
  3. Ok! They don’t always play with teams of 8 players haha.
  4. Ok! I hate to send flares and assign colors to my allies
  5. Ok! The Aztec Skirmisher are better!
  6. I have no opinion.


  1. Ok!
  2. Faith I don’t find it so necessary.


  1. Ok!
  2. Ok!
  3. mm Not necessary.


  1. Ok! They have strong camels.
  2. Ok!
  3. Ok!
  4. Poor Mamelukes! I prefer that the allies have access to imperial camels.
  5. Ok!

1-2) Militia-line is a bit complicated. You have to beat them with raw strength until Imp. Cheap price and some armor is enough buff for them.
3) As if everyone spams 100 tower in one place. You still can counter with rams tho.
4) Not sure how it’ll work out.
5) Xbow upgrade is too cheap to get. Making them too expensive is bad as well. For Castle upgrade that’s fair enough.

2. They have +1 pierce armor per age.


  1. It’s Wood cost. (DE)


  1. Nerfing doesn’t seem a good idea. Huns just saves every wood at start except -100w start. They have free pop at Dark. This’ll give Saracens some pretty nice buff. Save some small wood and make farms or archer. In post imp it’ll be even better. Making house without penalty. Inca also get this sorta huge saving and make them strong civ.



3. Camels balance updated.
4. Imperial Camel becomes too op for a team bonus. Same issue with Vietnamese Imp Skirms.

Check this

OK, bigboss, just do not push on the historical part - it is a game, it is meant to be a multiplayer game most of all, this means that historical accuracy is not that important and cannot be, for ex. villagers not moving and knocking on the ground is not the way people build structures, but who cares, since you cannot make them look like construction site realistic workers, not to mention you do not train architects LOL

About the swordsmen - it is OK to give them a bit more armor but not 2 pierce since they will f.CK WITH the " archers kill most infantry law ", which is a basic unwritten law since AoE2 Age of Kings.
Two-Handed S 1/1 and champion 1/1 is just fine. But one might make the TwoHanded Sword better by giving him a bitbetter training time without ruining the game

About the upgrades for food gathering - this would destroy the game…, man, sorry to tell you. But it is so. Early on you need even 50-100 food more and if you spend this amount on a tech for hunting deer better or reduce meat spoling - this will SUCK TOTALLY.

I do not see why you wish to change towers. Towers are OK, not to mention they suck early without murder holes. Tower rushes can be managed by a simple thing - looking at the map and knowing that it is srarting … That is it -scout more.

About the Hussar tech- I AGREE, IT IS too expensive now. About the Paladins - I also agree.


First about the historical part. I both agree and disagree. Don’t just introduce a civilization which has no relation to historical part. Don’t just introduce something that contradicts the total historical theme. I also feel it’s a direct insult to that culture. Indians is the prime example of that. I never heard much use of Camels other than Delhi Sultanate or Rajasthan and never was the core part of army. They are more of a elephant civilization than Camel civilization. First make a civilization actually true to historical details then nerf/buff it as needed. That was my objective of this balance idea. Also it’s totally wrong it’s a multiplayer game. It was never designed for a multiplayer focused game. But over the years a lot of meta came into scene and have tons of multiplayer opportunity introduced.
Swordsman-line. I thought about that too. +5HP is good for Two Handed Swordsman and 1/1 armor for Champions.
Idea was to make players to go for other deer heavy maps or berry heavy. Where those res are more viable than to go for Farming. Tho I kept optional.
Towers came from DE balance in ECL gameplay. I liked the concept of nerfing towers. Towers are really hard to counter and so much game tilting. For a defensive tower it’s good which is the true purpose of towers in early game. Aggro tower like now is hard to counter. You are totally screwed if you see your stone mines are far away than your base and no other mean to counter enemy tower.

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Those changes would be great, I would add a second unique unit for the Franks, the gendarme, a Paladin with lance with a bonus against infantry

You want their win rate to reach 70%? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

This reminds me of the OP unit in Age3. Anyone else?

I don’t suggest changes in chinese, because this nation has a very high upper limit and a very low lower limit (There is a big gap between the winning rate of novice and expert) , According to ( statistics. According to the history of ageII imperial it was about 476-1473 A.D, the Tang Dynasty also belongs to this era, which has the silk road, there are camels in transportation, it’s a little bit out of history to delete a camel (11). if you give chinese Siege Engineers and Herbal Medicine, then the snowball effect in chinese will be very strong!!! my suggestion is not to change Chinese.
Written in the end ; Chinese is a nation that tests the operation and development of players , If you can play the Chinese nation very strong , you will be a real expert.

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Well, I know this is old, but with the current trash crossbows, no one would want to go LS that much. you can mass archers and elephants and have a strong army. The new Kamandaran (which if you don’t know it literally means Archers) tech is way better than the whole 0.5 pop thing

I do think the mesoamerican civs and should be nerf. For example, its absurd for them to have siege engineer as they dont even fight with siege in history. Its better to remove siege engineer for those civs.

Italians and Chinese have the finest craftsmen in the Europe and Asia respectively. If Turks is bad in siege, how can it take down Constantinople? Its reasonable to add siege engineer instead.

AOE 2 does not have that much of historical-accuracy. And they don’t have Cavalry in the game, the siege should have something good

Please remember this

Also too much cheap to produce. They are like in top 5 pick. Faster vil production and this.