The insane econ early game with prelate and cheap blacksmith upon feudal messed up the balance with HRE once again…
Playing as HRE it’s alot of fun. No other civ can outecon you and you automatically counter any strat English has to punish booming. It’s just when you play another civ, that you realize that it’s hopeless.
By the time you get to feudal and have a decent army your facing a plethora of horsemen ( to counter villager snipe with archers ) and MAA. With MAA insane health pool it doesn’t matter if you’ve fielded an army to slow down their economy they just lumber at you. Force you to either a) retreat and be futher behind economically or b) commit and lose your army to take out a few villagers and then have them counter attack.
Needs to be some serious balance back to curb the auto-select HRE on any map I’m seeing time and time again.
While i completely agree that HRE is strong, if not the strongest Civ atm.
They are not to much of an issue in my opinion.
HRE biggest weakness is Mobility and a heavy reliance of MAA.
Which makes them very vournarable to Crossbow/horseman composition.
Also like the french. The HRE is increadible predictable how they are going to play. And because of this you can easily make a strategy to counter them.
Infact as Mongols ive started going super early Horsemen to snipe their prelate down in dark age.
This screws HRE over immensly throwing their entire boom out of the loop.
The Khan + 2 Horsemen can easily take out the prelate if he is not hugging the TC.
4 horsemen and you pretty much guarantee.
As Abbasid, depending on the map, you can simply outboom the HRE. And Abbasid actually have stronger infantry than HRE as their Maa has 15% more HP and +2 armor. And their canel archers are very mobile and still do a fair chunk of damage onto MAA.
Not to mention, like the mongols. Can quickly build 4-5 mangonels that would flatten any HRE army that dosnt have cavalry or anti siege.
HRE has their weaknesses.
I would be carefull about nerfing them.
Personally I feel that HRE is in a good spot.
Civs that are underperforming just needs to be lifted up to the same level.
HRE early game needed some love, their feudal is not the issue.
The problem at least imo is that they can easily defend from any pressure, go castle super quick and also imperial super quick and scale really well on late game on top of that.
Maybe leave their early game as it is, but adjust their late game scaling so civs can at least compete with a 2 TC build.
And the PUP changes are going to make their late game even stronger.
Id say the better player normally wins
Mostly this, HRE are in a good spot and a clear identity. Palace of Swabia having a 20% discount bothers me, but otherwise i think they are ok.
The thing with the English is that HRE counters archers really hard, of course Eng should try using less archers in the matchup. It can be argued that English could use some small buffs to age 3 and thats fair too if the changes affect mostly this specific matchup.
English has the highest armored MAA’s in the game, how about instead of shooting them with archers you get MAA’s to hit them…
HRE’s power is in a good place IMO; if you don’t like their eco being so strong then pressure them early; early as dark age! Sitting back versus HRE for a timing is likely gonna get you ■■■■■■!!
Right now what bothers me the most is that despite hre doing extremely well right now its still going to get buffs next patch which I think is a mistake and these buffs impact their already strong late game. Atm it is extremely hard to punish a fast castle from a good hre player and they will for sure be able to grab relics quicker than any other civ
They should change the discount of Imperial age up (Elzbach instead of Swabia).
HRE is nerfed next update.
Their Reigniz powerspike, the strongest feature of the civ, is close to be nonexistent now.
And HRE still dies to French and Mongols 4 out of 5 times, which makes them unviable on any open map.
This is wrong, relics deliever less gold but you can put 3 relics on regnitz+ relics stored on other places like towers and keeps also give extra gold. And considering how quickly hre can go up to castle you are almost garantee to get at least 3 relics in.
According to beasty on top level hre is now highly favoured over french. Its only a problem on lower levels.
HRE was nerf how??? Do you see notes?
B/c PUP notes HRE got BUFFFED!!! The chapel is a gather point
And cathedral not only allows for 3 relics BUT ALSO you can now put the relic in ANY keep/tower/dock and still get the cathedral amount of gold.
HRE doesn’t get more than 2 relics in an average game.
They lack map control to do that and they are forced to play defensively, as their Feudal options are the worst in the entire game.
Beasty is one of the best players, but he is often wrong.
And also he specifically told to not play HRE on open maps in his HRE guide, because they die to French in Mongols.
Which is proven by statistical data.
He told that before the hre was buffed.
Before that it was highly favoured for aggressive civs like french or english, but after that buff (which was needed) these match ups changed. Now they can go up straight to castle very early and only need 1 or maybe 2 towers on the gold to defend.
If you get only 1-2 relics on avg as a HRE, may be you should consider trying other civs. The only one civ who can effectively compete HRE in the relic race is rus.
The only HRE problem is lack of food during early castle. Everyone knows HRE is an S teir nowadays, even more in the next patch.
No, matchup hasn’t changed.
Yes, they get to Castle a bit earlier, and still die there against a French opponent of equal skill.
Which Beasty can’t know, because there is only 1 player in the world matching Beasty’s skill.
People who think HRE is S tier never played HRE.
It’s very funny to read people that are so extremely confident without having any relevant experience.
HRE struggles to survive in Feudal and early Castle.
As I said, they simply lack map control to reliably get relics against French and Mongols.
And no amount of personal attacks from your side changing this objective fact.
100% agreed. This will keep HRE in castle for a little longer and now with relics providing 200 gold/sec they won’t go imperial in 10 minutes. I don’t think there is anything else that needs changes.
HRE struggled in feudal, but nowadays, with the recent buffs, they can easily get away to castle w/o much struggles.
From their on HRE can spam powerful units to overcome opponent’s feudal army, which doesn’t have much economical advantage like an HRE has, then slowly regains map control easily. This is a common practice of HRE, that make it an s tier and players universally agree on this.
I also agree on this. Its ridiculous that HRE gets basically S+ tier landmark and its for discounted price so makes no sense. If opponent has no idea that fast imperial is coming then its even harder to hit timing which allows player to stop HRE.
Even if HRE plans to go fast imperial and if they scout opponent has 2-3 TC’s to match the boom of swabia they can just cancel that swabia play and go aggression and punish 2-3TC play too easily.