Thoughts on nerfing inca trush by making blacksmith upgrades not affect villager wars? It would eliminate the unbalanced vil rush that incas can do but make them still decent at trushing (vils harder to die from towers, cheaper towers etc).
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and how do you plan on compensating this very mediocre civilization by nerfing probably the best strategy they have?
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Well honestly I think Incas are better outside of tower rushes than most people think. With their counter units they are like the American Byzantine, they can counter the enemy but people snob them because they don’t have an omegalul bulldozer unit to rely on.
As of the proposal I suppose you ment that attack upgrades wouldn’t affect villagers but armour still would? Your wording is a bit confusing.
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Incas still need their Trush to contest Feudal, otherwise they get nothing.
Do you mean pierce armour for vils but without blacksmith upgrades? Prepare Sappers in Imperial Age and take Castle down with 30 vils…
Towers costs stone and Incas pay less stone for their buildings, they already have this one as I know.
Vill rush + tower is lame. At least in my opinion (and i’m sure that some of us think it brings variety in strategy). But you cannot just nerf it without giving them something else to compensate.
The first step would be to remove the attack bonus to vill from blacksmith. vill rush + tower are still powerfull but a bit less. Early feudal would remain the same but mid/late feudal would be easier to counter.
Personnaly i would prefer a complete rework of this bonus. Like a free bonus armor or hp in castle and imp. Like +1/+2 or 20 hp every age starting in castle. Since it’s start in castle it only help to survived to raids and creating forward castle. And it works well with the “defensive” aspect of the civ. And to compensate for the nerf? Probably removes the minimum range of slinger and skirm as a civ bonus and give something else as a UT. Something usefull indeed.
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I’m pretty sure this strategy is a meme even for Spanish.
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With the gradual trend of nerfing early tower rushes that is currently at complete rework of the Koreans into a true archer civ, I’m cautiously hopeful about Incas sooner or later getting a similar rework into a true jack-of-all-trades civ with several bonuses that are very small on their own, but combine together to make a smooth experience throughout the whole match. Incas can do so much more than tower rushes. But their tower rush is just too good to not use in a competitive scene. Some of the imaginary changes I like to think about are:
o Buffing the team bonus to “Farms, Mills, Lumber Camps, and Mining Camps build 100% faster.”
o Adding a second team bonus for, or replacing the first team bonus with, “Economy technologies, except Wheelbarrow and Handcart, research 100% faster.”
o Replacing the Villager Blacksmith bonus with “Villagers get +2/+3 to attack, melee armor, and pierce armor starting in the Castle/Imperial Age.”
Only thing missing is an early but temporary military boost to replace the tower rush. Probably something to encourage Feudal Age Eagle rushes, so that in theory the opponent ideally responds with M@A and sets up the Incan player for a Slinger switch should the game go to the Castle Age. Like “Can train Eagle Scouts in the Dark Age.” or “New Barracks spawn one free Eagle Scout.” and “Eagle infantry deal bonus damage vs. Buildings (not Standard Buildings.)”
I mean if two villagers fight one is incan with fu feudal blacksmith while hte other is standard they both take 2 damage & recieve 2. This is the change so when the incan sends his entire eco you can actually fight it with your own rather than it being like 10+ maa-in-training (something between maa & militia in strength) and you throwing vils away to no avail.
The difference in incan villagers is that they take 40 hits of your vil to kill, but kill yours in 14. Nearly able to 1v2 a standard vil.
I love incas myself, not for their trush but for their units. They dont have the fatal flaws that other meso civs do but in exchange their units arent as excelling in general.
Did you think these are suggestions to improve incan trush in exchange for the blacksmith bonus only being changed in vil wars? Was it not clear enough that the bonuses that incans have in trushing aside from the vil fighting is just listing their strengths in trushing to show that trushing is still viable even with the only change I suggested happening?
Nothing in your comment says anything, why point out the obvious?
I really like this, the teambonus could alternatively be “Farming upgrades partially affect farms already placed” Like many things in aoe2, its not straightforward. It doesn’t give like +75 food from horsecollar but +75 (% of farm left)(balancing multiplier). So if every point is .5 farms placed already would get 25% of 75. For reference on the strength of this bonus, chinese already get +45 food on farms and its not considered broken. +30 in feudal after upgrades isnt doing much more. Though probibly some slight decrece in effectiveness when chinese bonus is active would be needed.
I really like the second change as well, as it gives the inca player the bonus outright rather than force them down the eagle unit path to recieve advantages from it.
Hmm, I would inversely not have something to force the opponent into maa like this I would prefer you to make incas want eagles in castle possibly deal with archers caught out. Then mid-castle the opponent would need to counter the eagles in some manner. Though on the topic of buffing their military in feudal, I cant really see something happening in feudal to the eagle unless its a anti-scout buff (like +2 bonus damage vs cav in feudal only), sort of a limited time buff) as +1 armor makes archers do half the damage to eagles and then eagle+archer would be a bit too strong. As their economy isnt as strong as mayans or aztecs, having them make eagle scouts at castle age speed while going up to castle could be viable? It would let them mass at least 8-10 rather than 5-7 from 3 barracks.
Your not alone on wanting a total rework, for the UT change, +1 attack for slingers & skirmishers?
Tower rushes are already nerfed very much with DE. Only Incans would go for a trush. Why do we need to nerf this strat even more?
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well aztek got +1 attack and range for skirms. So i don’t think it would be good. Since UT that brings something upon research will be a things (with the 2 new civ), it could be something in that way. Likes few kamayuk or eagle on each TC upon researching. I don’t know.
Devs seem to don’t like it. And i’m agree with this vision. Tower rush is lame. A bonus on stone is enough to make you above average. What i personnaly think is tower can be a way to support your unit. It should never replace it. And vill should not be a military unit by default. You should use your vill when it’s necessary, not as a main strat. And it’s very sad that one strat with a civ shadows every other strat it could do.
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Devs dont understand What RTS should be, Which play should be recommended.
They are just children in the tower.
The RTS game whose devs have kept alive for 20, has devs that do not know what RTS is?
Well, as an almost exclusively RTS player, I can tell you they are doing a GREAT job at making a RTS game!
Maybe it is good that they do not know what they are doing, if it keeps working out like this. A “method to the madness” approrach.
Or maybe you have to realize that all other RTS games have died out, this is how RTS is supposed to be done (for the most part) and that more modern RTS games games couldn’t last 10 years, much less 20.
Incas don’t need anything at all, the only reason that make them on top 5 winrate civs is only their Trush. I believe if you remove this from them, they will become worse than Koreans before the buff. People always complain about annoying strats not only the Trush, but also TC Persian drop, Goths lame, Mongols lame by their LOS for their scout, Vietnamese lame for their bonus, etc. To be honest, i prefer to play against Incas Trush rather than seeing my boares stolen or against the stupid Goths. Now no civ make a Trush except the Incas
These devs are not same as AOK AOC Devs,
Our devs (DE) were just modder who use Genie Editor.
They did just few.
They get benefits from aoe2 community.
Their ideas are always bad.
Just they did new civs and keep the fundamental of games
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True, these devs have made the game grow both in content and playerbase, from the days of AoC, which means they are even better than the AoK and AoC devs.
Yet more people play THEIR version of the game, than AoC.
Except they have changed even the old civs so they get with the times.
yes They did like just Modder