Are you sure it’s siege elephants ? I think siege elephants move at speed 4 while mahout lancer (the 3 hussars equivalent) moves at speed 6…
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We dont play the same game then xD
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4.41 with monks passive
Yeah, but siege eles cant kill LB…
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but you can have 8000 damage to buildings, 45 pop, around 1400 hp each elephant, and 4.41 speed. So its the best morter, except from the portuguese morter that ahs 48 range
i do nt think culverins can kill siege elehpants, they have 1400 hp versus 600 hp, its better on pop benenift than culverin
You clearly haven’t played with India 
They are 6pop/5pop 300Wood and 350Gold, and trains very slow.
its a mortar+culv with 4 speed, 28 range and 1 area damage lol.
5 siege ele + 103 vills(100wood each) = only 67-72 pop left for military/with no cannons at all!
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Siege ele are countered by Culv/Skirm/Goons/Cav . . .
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and musk/halb/villagers/animals can inflict damage too,
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while the ONLY worse unit against a siege ele, is the Pikeman.
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If I do not miss anything, we have:
Attack against buildings:
- 1 Siege Elephant: 7 (-2 age IV) pop, 28 (+2 age V) range, 6 ROF, 400 damage vs buildings (+15%+10% age III, +25%+5% age IV, +50% age V) so up to +105%.
So 810 damage/6s and for 5 pop and 30 range. - 1 Mortar: 4 pop, 40 range (+8 for por), 6 ROF, 500 damage (+25% age IV +50% age V), ott/dut/rus get a card for 15%/20%/30%.
So from 875 damage/6s to 1025 damage/6s for 4 pop and 34 range.
Damage attack artillery:
- 1 Siege elephant: 100 base damage => 205 damage/6s for 5 pop and 30 range.
- 1 culverin: 4 pop (-1 for swedes), 34 range, 160 damage (+25% age IV +50% age V), ott/fre get a card +15%/+25%.
So from 280 damage/6s to 320 damage/6s for 4 pop and 34 range.
Looking at late game damage alone, the culverins and the mortar are more efficient at their roles,
especially as they do not need cards and have a huge range advantage. In most supremacy decks, the card decreasing the pop by 2 is missing, so from a population standpoint, the siege elephant is nearly replaced by 1 culverin + 1 mortar (if we exclude the costs).
Units HP:
- 1 Siege elephant: 30% RResist, 700 (+10%+15% age III, +25%+5% age IV, +50% age V) so up to +105%.
So 1435 hp with 5 pop while being artillery and light cavalry. - 1 culverin: 75% RResist, 280 (+25% age IV + 50% age V). ott gets +15%.
So usually 490 hp with 4 pop while being artillery only.
If you put a culverin against a siege elephant in the late game:
- the culverin kills the siege elephant in 6 shots
- the siege elephant kills the culverin in 3 shots
- the culverin has +4 range (+6 in fortress age)
- the siege elephants receive 5 times the damage from skirmishers (x2 as light cavalry, x2.5 from lower resist): so 23 damage instead of 4/5 damage.
So yeah, in a 1v1 scenario the siege elephant wins if he is in range, but there are more factors to consider. In particular that you do not have the falconet equivalent as long as they do not use consulate shipments of european artillery. The fact that indians have no easy access to a falconet type of unit is a big weakness of theirs.
I feel that the only advantages of siege elephant is that is is (1) faster (so stance) compared to other artillery, (2) more tanky in general, and (3) combines the “moartar function” and the “culverin function” which makes it more user friendly compared to a culverin and a mortar. But siege elephants are not nearly as efficient in supremacy.
Overall I would rather have culverins+mortars+falconets+horse artillery rather than siege elephant+flail elephant.
So even if the siege elephant is very tanky for its cost, I think it is fair considering the circumstances of the civ.
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an important difference is the ranged armour also. while the hp difference is quite large, with only 30rr goons counter them nearly as well as they do a heavy cav - which have simar hp and armour generally. This is exaggerated by cav with better multi vs artillery (musket riders, yabusame, rifle rider). If siege els were their current stats with 75rr they would, of course, be wildly overpowered but in their current state they are a highly effective sniper artilery that is effectively worse at both roles than either a culverin or a mortar, and easy to catch out with ranged cavalry or take down with skirm type units.
Demander un nerf des éléphants ce serais probablement la chose qui ferait que l’ont ne verrait plus jamais un joueur Indien les utiliser hors débutants.
Entre autre en partie dû à leur coût en pop très élevé
Quand aux 5000 santé des éléphants sans vouloir être impoli cela fait très marseillais (très exagéré) chez nous, les Mahouts atteignent tout au plus 2000 et quelques de santé
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I play a lot of legacy FFA with India, its one of my best civs and can say Siege ele are vastly under rated and if used well are pretty good. Slightly less so in TR games because battles are pitched in small areas and wall spam prevents them from good dodging and re routing. its speed and utility for buildings and cannons is really great. It takes some micro to keep them save though, so when you see those culverins coming you just move them to the other side of your army and let your units become a buffer. This is why India as a melee civ is great as it keeps those buffers and your ele freer space to move about.
my advise… never make goons to kill mahouts. they are just really inefficient compared to melee inf. and the rest of Indias roster does too well vs them.
Brits in general struggle with strong melee civs, their musk are a good sponge but in the past lacked a fast killing skirm. with the new roger rangers this weakness should be greatly mitigated.
use hand cav as a melee wall and retreat if they use sepoys in melee.
As india make extra mahouts than needed, and once they get that breakthrough point chase armies away and can turn the tide of battle. Attack in waves not sustaining numbers like euro civs do.
You guys are discounting the movement speed of Mahouts and their splash damage - they will easily destroy pikemen with modest backing from sepoys or gurka + the Age 4 Euro units India gets (usually brits) in Age 2/3.
Any player with modest skill in micro will latch onto your army, preventing any micro, and your army will be liquidated by splash damage. Whether its Bow + Pike or Muskets.
I have tried the new rangers card against them too - I went long in a game with 3 factories, South Africa revolt - Skirms + pikes, Rocket mass. and still could not cut through the constant instantly spawned 10 elephants with 5,000 health mixed with the whip guys.
It’s so imbalanced right now - all the African maps that have 1 mine greatly disadvantage a civ like brits that can barely survive a rush or boom on maps that greatly advantage any civ that can cut their access off to more resources with their rush.
sorry I am ranting about many things but the game is not in a good place right now it feels like
mahouts definitely do not have 5k health and exaggeration by a factor of about 2.5x their actual health isn’t doing you any favours. Mahouts are 7 population, almost double a mameluke and more than double the pop of a cuir or a spahi. It is expected for them to be strong as a unit, but they are only cost effective against skirms. They have 28 base damage, about the same as a naginata. They cost 650 resources, they will need to be countered by like 10 pikes, that is expected. you can’t expect to beat 5 mahouts with a dozen pikes any more than you would expect to beat 5 heavy cannon with 10 hussars. Muskets are kinda buggy vs cav because the melee switch animation. Use heavy cav at front against mahouts. As someone who plays india frequently the worst thing i can see charging my mahouts is a wave of heavy cav. If you’re still struggling, Play india yourself for a few games and see just how ridiculously expensive mahouts are and how quickly they die vs other cav. This is a learn-to-play issue since india is widely regarded as one of the poorest late game civs and mahouts are fairly mediocre by age 5, lacking cuirass and pretty much any relevant upgrades to their very poor attack.
For reference they have 4 attack per population. imagine a hussar with 8 damage
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Pikes vs mahouts 
mind blown!
Ever heard of dragoons? You could actually kite mahouts with them like forever.
“Age 4 Euro units” I think you mean consulate redcoats. They’re just your usual musks with 10% higher stats. I don’t see how that’s a problem, you don’t accumulate export so quickly anyway.
And mahouts definitely don’t get to 5000 hp. You’re exaggerating. Even with all upgrades they get somewhere around 2k+ hp. You have to know that India doesn’t have a decent artillery, which means you can make falcs and give them a hard time. Siege eles are expensive and situational to them most of the time and lbs can shred through them because of their light cav tag. Take advantage of that. Hussars to body block mahouts and urumis, dragoons to do some dps on them, some falcs and lb mass to do damage to sepoy and gurk mass from behind. Some musks to protect the falcs if necessary. You’ll always have a higher mass than him because you’re brits. You can totally end this game in age 3, rather than going age 4 or age 5.b
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भले ही महूत ताकतवर हैं पर वो बोहोत महंगे भी तो हैं। ६ घर , १० पाइकमैन के समान खाना पानी लेते हैं।
१० सैनिक आराम से पूरे नक्शे पर फैल कर अपना प्रभाव दिखा सकते हैं। एक सैनिक जैसे महूत जो बहुत धीरे भी चलता है क्या ही करेगा।
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और महावत की पाथिंग भी इतनी अछि नहीं है , तीन महावत भेजो तो सिर्फ १ ही पहुंचता है | और वो भी , वहाँ जा कर खड़े हो जाता है | बल्कि महावत की जनसंख्या कम कर देनी चाहिए कार्ड लगने के बाद |
१ जनसंख्या और काम करनी चाहिए , ५ की जगह , ४ हो जाए तो मज़ा ही या जाए 
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बिलकुल भाई मैं तुम्हारे साथ सहमत हूं। वैसे अभी देखा मैने विकी में लिखा है कि महावत ६ नहीं बल्कि ७ जनसंख्या खा जाता है! ६ की जगह तो हवदाह हाथी लेता है।
अपनी जगह में गोल घूमते घूमते मौत हो जाती है। 
और क्योंकि उसके पास रेंज्ड अटैक भी नहीं है तो देर समय तो ये और भी बेकार प्रदर्शन करता है, दूर से ही खत्म।
सूफी युधक हाथी जो की भारतीय सैनिक भी नहीं हैं वो कहीं गुना अच्छा काम करते हैं। अगर गिनती करें तो एक मैच में अगर २ व्यापार केन्द्र हैं सूफी वाले और तुम दो बार कार्ड का इस्तेमाल करो (इंपीरियल युग से पहले और बाद में) तो तुम्हारे पास कुल मिला के ८+८+६+६ = २८ सूफ़ी हाथी आ जायेंगे वो भी बहुत सस्ते में और कोई घर भी नहीं जायेगा।
वहीं महावत हाथी २००/७ = २८ मिलेंगे तो सही पर इस चक्कर में सारी की सारी जनसंख्या इस्तेमाल हो जायेगी। ऊपर से जो महावत को अपग्रेड करने और मनसबदार के लिए खर्चा होगा वो अलग।
जाट लांसर भी अपने क्षमता के मुकाबले कहीं ज्यादा जनसंख्या खाते हैं। कॉन्सुलेट से हुस्सार मंगाना ज्यादा सस्ता पड़ता है। ऐसा लगता है जैसे भारतीय ही भारतीय सैनिक नहीं इस्तेमाल कर सकते इस गेम में।
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हाँ इकदम सही बोला !!! सारी भारतीय / एशियन मर्सनेरी बहुत ही बेकार हैं , उन्मे भी सबसे ज्यादा जाट लैन्सर ही बेकार है | कान्सलिट वाले हुज़ार ज्यादा सही पड़ते हैं | लेकिन अब क्या ही करें, ये पूरा खेल ही ऐसा समझ के बनाया है जैसे यूरोप के अलावा और कुछ है ही नहीं दुनिया में |
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if they nerf siege elis india needs falcs in age 3
Need to train cav + dragoon