Many here will say that the defensive structures, namely the fortresses they build in the Heroic Age, are quite good, even without the mythical upgrade. But what no one takes into account is how the TC looks now after the nerf.
Yes, the TC nerf was unjustified but it was the easy way out for the devs.
The tc nerf was in its range so its didnt cover the towers. Making you able to destroy towers in classic age without loosing units to tc flre. It still covers the gold mine and all other Vital spots.
Wow I didn’t know that is possible. Those odin cavalry really do tank that much?
The thing is devs consider units being garrisoned inside of TCs. They do get dmg boost when there are villagers inside. Also they do consider people doing garrison micro with them.
but to be honest I would much rather not having those and making them just stronger straight up. Would be more noob friendly that way. And the fact that cavalry can zoom under TC is also unpleasant for me. They miss too much and their range is not enough.
I think making the area around the TCs safer will make new players feel a lot better in the game.
Although regarding the clips, They function as they are intended. The Loki didn’t garrison his villagers. He didn’t make hirdmen. He didn’t garrison micro. Although it begs the question did he deserve this.
Also imagine being this new to the game and being put into anatolia LOL !
AoE 3 has a rush mechanic where you destroy the enemy’s TC at 7-8 minutes. And I think that’s acceptable. BUT! To perform a rush, you sacrifice your late-game build. You summon a bunch of free soldiers from the metropolis, build barracks right under the enemy base like Kronos, and while attacking the enemy TC, you constantly build up soldiers from the barracks, wasting all your resources. Moreover, if the enemy defends against the rush, you have less than a 50% chance of winning the game. The enemy can also collect anti-rush cards and even then summon their free soldiers.
So what’s going on here? The one who gets there first wins. I’m definitely not against rush mechanics; I played a rush-based civ in AoE 3 with great pleasure. But there are no rush mechanics or counters here. The guy attacked without aggressive barracks at 8 minutes and won. Nonsense.
Besides, in AoE 3, in a 3v3 game, you communicate constantly. First, you agree on a rush or a fast Age 3. Then you agree on who will counter which unit. Next, you plan your forward base, then choose which of the three players to attack, because some civs are weaker against rushes. Once the attack begins, within 15 seconds, the allied armies arrive at the base of the attacked player (so you understand, by the 5-6 minute mark, each player has 20 and more soldiers). At the same time, using scouting or by looking at the card deck, you can figure out that a rush is about to occur and prepare for it. It’s physically impossible to break a TC at Age 2 in 20-40 seconds; it takes at least 3-5 minutes. Each TC shot kills a similar 1 pop cavalry unit with two hits, and it never misses; its accuracy is 100%. In this situation, as in the video, in a normal game without noobs, 60 raiders would have rushed to one base. What countermeasures are there? My soldiers will spend a full minute running to the opposite edge of the map (and this is for a Set). It’s impossible to predict a rush because a forward base is not needed. You just show up and win in 20 seconds. It’s completely uncontrollable.
You risk nothing, you don’t need any preparation. You extend the automatic queue, wait for the masses, and victory.
This isn’t AoE3.
20 characters
I mean its very clear what happened here.
Yea there are. AoM ls the only aoe. RTS that gives you free towers. You didnt upgrade them. You also have an upgrade tha specifically gives bonus damage vs calv. Which you also didnt get.
If you had any army what so ever to defend this would also fail. Specially as norse, having ao little military untis at that point in the game is slow. Looking at the mínima it seems you dont have any military Building besides the temple at that time.
Theres also micro. The tc is hirting a RC thats being healed by a valk. Instead of finishing the valk and then the other units or swaping to another unit not being healing and for the opponent to also micro.
It could also be focusing down the units low on hp to remove the unit mass faster.
Theres plenty more to what happened here than needing stronger Buildings.
The reason why the fortifications patch was very mixed opinions depending on elo is because at higher elo people used all their toola available and it killed aggro plays flat. On lower Elos where people dont use most of them its gonna be weak. You can buff towers to 1 shot 10 units. Its point less if you dont upgrade them and over powered if you do.
I can still read your post jajajaja
I agree, but imagine if it were 3 Norse at 1400 Elo, 20 raiders and 1 Valkyrie each. What could you do? I know I’m starting to sound like the guy who NERF THE HOPLITES guy, but really. They’d destroy the TC and kill all the vills in 10 seconds?
You would also have allies. You would need buildings, towers/army, you will loose to that amount of units naked. The fact that it was norse or calv units didnt matter. you had so little to defend yourself.
Do you think theres something you could have done better? Or do you think you did your best and something else is the problem? Lets start from that to see where to go from this.
Yea I posted it by accident it wasn’t complete yet.
I hate rush mechanics I think they cause new players to leave and never come back. Although I do understand removing it maybe need a rework of many things within the game. But so far I haven’t seen any annoying rushes in AoM.
I think it is not him playing He is the set player. This is his team mate. We need to see his base also
On both videos posted by OP the only lesson I learned is to not afk villagers below the TC or let 20 enemy units hit the TC for free with no garrison, repair or units to defend. If we buff TCs to a point where they can be destroyed only by siege, AoM will become a snoozefest and classical age aggression will become useless, which is not desirable.
Imean you can swap the pronouns then for if X player played correctly or if theres something that could have been done better (there was).
I was preparing for the battle with Hades, building slingers and doing water booms. When I saw the TCs attacking, I assigned the barracks to build spearmen. By the time the first spearman reached the TC, the raiders had already gone back to base to heal.
What can I learn?
We learned how to rush on Odin.
The free upgrade for Egypt’s towers was removed for absolutely no reason. It became more expensive for absolutely no reason. What did Egypt get in return for the classical age? It seems like the guys who break TC on Odin at the 8-minute mark were the ones complaining about this mechanic.
Thought you were the player in the video. Yea its not on you its fully on the norse player that had nothing going for him at that time of the game.
The reason was with the tower buffs eggy was very oppresive shutting down early aggro.
Towers were made a lot stronger so the upgrade cost was raised. If you think about it in terms of cost a tower is more than 3 archer units (its around 5). You have 4 which you used to be able to get for 150 W / 100 G if im not mistaken 12 - 15 archers by less than half the cost. yes they are stationary but still it was insane value.
For any opponent to even raid you with calv they needed at least 100 wood for a stable and then almost 70-100 resources per calv unit. You could tower up for the same value that he had to invest to even be able to raid. Add the crenalations upgrade and you shut off his whole strat for the cost of a stable and 5 units.
Eggy had that for almost free. Just the cren investment. Also, By design, eggy used to had free towers to protect their classic age game that was weak. Thats not a thing in retold. Eggy classic age army is one of if not the strongest one. They dont need free towers.
Nah dude, 8 mins and they didnt even had tower ups, 2-3 units in sight. Its easier to blame a balance change but the guy had many tools available and did nothing. Specially for a guy that went heimdal. No walls no buildings to cover around gold mine, no military buildings. Couldnt have made it easier if he wanted to, maybe if he deleted the MU.
You have a good opinion of me.
I mean, what was the compensation for the slow vills that are now defenseless? Odin’s matchup against Egypt is currently 55-57%. Seth is the only one who counters him with Plague Spearmen and Maphack.
Odin and pos will always be good in lower elos. They are easy to play and people dont defend properly against raids. Even during the fortifications patch they had good winrates. As you can see in the video you posted is meaningless all the buffs if the player doesnt click the upgrade.
Until you get to higher level where Eggy counters norse hard. Which you can see from any tournament games. Eggy is not very friendly in terms of mistakes so it suffers greaetly on ladder winrates.
They really should bring this back. Civs should be as unique as possible. I would prefer that they have weaker towers but free towers.
I actually think this is game’s fault. The guy is new. The game is not noob friendly. He is put against people who are way better than him (even though the game has had its biggest surge in newplayers after it’s launch). and on top of that he is put on a water map. Even pros know how obnoxious playing on water is. And I just checked my guy really went on water. poor thing.
They have a useless third upgrade that no one ever uses. This was done for balance reasons, so the Greeks, Atlanteans, and Egyptians upgrade their towers twice. Egypt gets one free upgrade plus two paid ones. Now they have three paid upgrades. Let them check the telemetry to see how often they’re upgraded.
Haven’t you thought that this was done for a reason?
RESOURSES: 2100-2650 LIMIT: 60
Might be. Didnt check that far to look for the Elos and difference in player strenghs, only saw the video.
Yes i gave you the reason.
This is a bad simulation on many levels. First thats not classic age. Thats heroic. I very clearly stated strong classic age army.
Second, there are several things you are setting up for conveniance you help your point. Hoplites with sarissa (you dont show the upgrades of the hoplites sneacky) but they are attacking from behind the Hyph with the extra range and i can see that also in the unit stats when you clicked the hoplite. Effective damage is increased. Hyph at the front and not the other way. Yet you didnt give axemen their unique tech. Dont got for skewed simualtions like our NORSE NEEDS Archers guy please.
You decided to put balance point in pop which heavily favores any greek army which whole gimmick is strong costly units when you take into account their pop. This versus eggy which gimmick is cheap units. You are making a simulation that favors the greek army.
You also fail to consider a lot more things that are way more relevant in classic age. Like how Long it takes for a unit to be made. You dont start with full pop armies. If i can make 5 units for every 3 you make i get a timing where i can overwhelm you.
If i can build all my military from 1 Building while to need to divide between several thats also an advantage to me. If im able to heal my army and you are not i can force Skirmishes deal damage, retreat, heal and come back again and chip away.
Second example si also bad since Chariot archers would Just shoot and retreat and kill the untis without getting Hit. Which you obviously arent microing so you remove thier advantage over any group of archers.