Nerf Steppe Lancers

Especially Mongol ones, but also other ones have been silently OP for a while.

Let’s remember that release SL made many pros mad and were some of the most broken units ever released.

Now we’re almost back to that level where Mongols SL are a unit you can spam into anything, including Monks and Pikemen, and prevail.

Ladder currently is filled with people civ picking Mongols solely to do this stupid Castle Age all-in (not particularly hard to do.

Incidentally SL being broken catapulted Mongols from being an A-tier civ into an S-tier in Hera’s recent tier list.

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The main thing that makes them so strong is how fast they break through palisades before you can wall behind. So I think the best way to nerf them is to reduce their damage to buildings only. Anything more than that is going to make them too weak.

They beat Pikemen pretty well too

What about nerfing Knights first?

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At least you can convert Knights and they don’t always get the 1st hit off.

Knights are annoying but also 25 res more expensive than SL. Overall they feel more bearable than Mongols SL to me.

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no need to nerf them, they already nerfd pathing so until thats fixed dont see an issue

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Pikes monk defence works fine with enough numbers and upgrades.

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I’ll hate to see SL being nerfed again just for Mongols.

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Agreed. If the problem is mongols steppe lancer they should split the HP bonus between castle age and imperial age.

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If mongol SL is the problem I also prefer to nerf the mognol SL instead of all SL.

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Before this year ends, we’ll can agree to reduce the Mongol HP bonus from 30% to 15% in Castle Age and restore back to 30% in Imperial Age.

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Or maybe make it a castle age UT to replace Nomads.

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This could be a solution, just for mongols. But I don’t think SL are that strong now, so no general nerfs are needed.

I don’t think they are OP, they are usefull only early game then they are like trash units which cost gold and they don’t resist to monks.

Also they are available only for limited civs so you know in advance if you can get raided by SL and adapt your palisads (close to villagers instead of large walls) and be a bit less greedy with pikes. If you survive this small time when SL are useful then they are not a problem anymore.

90% of the player base don’t have that much skill to hit and run pikemen more than 1V1 so I don’t think it’s a problem that they have range.

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Keep the Mongols 30% bonus, but it should apply to the scout line only, not Steppe Lancers.

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steppe lancers are also light cavalry according to the text strings
they just need to make it staggering effect castle/imp type so late game hussar spam still gets 30% hp while most gold intensive period castle age steppe lancer only gets half 15%, or even 20/30% doesnt have to be 15/30

I don’t see Knights as problematic, they cost 25 res more than SL, have pathing issues, don’t have range so for example you can’t stack them to get a disproportionate number of attacks. SL in melee work like Crossbows, in that more → better (not the case for Knights where every additional Knight is technically useless after you get a full surround on the enemy forces).

Are Knights too strong in mid elo? Maybe. But Mongols SL are a FAR worse offender. I have 2 pieces of evidence to support my claim here, Hera the #1 player in the world, recently rated Mongols as S-tier (“broken” in his video) and explicitly mentioned early aggression, midgame SL powerspike, smoothness and late game strong units (including Hussar) as reasons why. My personal experience in 1700 elo also serves as a piece of evidence where I go vs Mongols FAR more than before.

I don’t see how “pathing” applies to SL. In melee, they behave like Archers. You can stack them on top of each other to get a disproportionate number of attacks.

At the peak of SL being broken (Cumans DLC release), I bet there were people like you still saying “just go Pikemen bro”.

Can you beat them? Yes if you are 200-300 elo better than opponent, yes. But here I’m talking about a fair game between opponents of same skill level. I am not supposed to be significantly better than the opponent to beat him.

Also in my elo (1700 elo), there are A LOT of Mongols spammers. If that’s not symptomatic, idk what is. Normally when in a MP game, a broken strat emerges, competitive players abuse that dominant strat. It’s simple game theory really.

Or the bonus won’t apply to Mongols altogether. SL is already a fine unit, costing 25 rez less than a Knight, and performing worse in small numbers and about the same in large numbers. They scale well, the Mongols ones don’t have last armor so they aren’t great vs Archer civs in Imperial, but something like Tatars SL in contrast I see as a fine unit that people just sleep on.

It looks pretty broken to me, and more importantly I go vs it every 2nd game in my elo.

SL from generic civ are balanced, Mongols SL are broken. Imagine if a civ got Knights with +30% HP in Castle Age, that’s 156 HP Knights? Sounds broken? It probably would be.

I would strongly disagree here, due to lag/latency even at 2k+ elo people don’t have the micro to perform “0 return hits” raids. The issue is, Pikemen have 0 range, so have all the awkwardness of melee pathing. SL don’t have this issue. If you have an engagement of, say, 6 SL vs 4 Pikemen, I would expect the Pikemen to win, or at least kill 4-5 SL. Instead, if you micro properly, you can always make it so that you get 6 hits and suffer only 2-3 back. Effectively, due to 1 range, even with average micro only 1/2 the Pikemen attack (the other are busy reaching a random SL on the side).

Have you ever watch The Viper, Hera and other pros to see how they are good at hit and run with SL ?
Who told about “0 return hits”? we will never het 0 hits, we are humans )

That will be pretty bad change. Regional units that is shared by only 3 civs, should have a bonus for each civ.

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Problem solved. 20 chars

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