Nerf the castle age serjeant

The YouPudding strat broke the game in all elo’s.
It’s boring and has nothing to do with smart play.
Please nerf…

I think the training time from Donjon should be reverted to 20 seconds from 16 seconds (In Feudal Age), 12 (In Castle Age).

i dont think this will be enough.

Truth be told i didnt even know about this strat until a few hours ago when i watched t90 video 11

I think you have to nerf the unit or you have to put in a tech to research them which takes some time so they dont have this scary timing in castle age…pretty silly that u cant counter it with knights.

the only thing working now seems like going fc with a decent UU civ?

TBF serjeants are not the only unit unique or otherwise that is unfair to fight against with feudal Composition but they are still a problem. The problem is they are not OP in castle or imperial just against feudal age opponents it might be tricky to nerf them while making sure they are balanced across all ages
Edit: you could nerf their training speed and give it back upon researching first crusade

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there are 2 differences to other UU, which is why this strat is so strong:

  1. they can build donjons

  2. you can produce them already in feudal and they get the stats for free. This is the mainproblem, because if you want to counter with fc knights for example, the sicilianplayer will outnumber you.

For other UU u have to wait until u hit castle age AND build a castle on top of that…so you have to pay 650 stone instead of 175 stone and 75 wood and you have to wait a lot longer until you have your first unit.

Sounds fair. Though I don’t think it will make too big of a difference.

Is easy, remove serjeants from feudal so they can’t build their numbers early

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Can bulgarians do a similar strat with krepost and konnik? Thats would be even harder to defend, and a krepost is not much more expensive than a donjon but much stronger. They can do 20+2 no farm FC and krepost rush maybe? Ive never tested but just an inspiration

Krepost is stronger but more expensive, so is the Konni, Konniks can’t also be created in feudal age.

So you literally want to remove the only Feudal Age UU from the game?

Also Konnik can’t build Krepost to initiate the chain reaction.

Krepost drop the enemy without army support? Feels too risky. And konnik follow-up would be too expensive for this eco.

I agree that konnik is noy ideal because less pierce armour also more expensive than serjeant but it is still worth a try

There are so many strengths of the YouPudding strat, which is why counter strats often can’t beat it.

  1. No need for a barracks, so the wood saving allows you to spend it elsewhere, e.g. early market + farms. Donjon also counts as a building to unlock stables and ranges so you don’t need a barracks to make knights or archers.

  2. No need to waste any villager time sending them forward to build Donjons because you can just make a few Sargents from your home Donjon to send as forward builders.

  3. Forward Donjons are stronger than towers and allow you to dictate the pace of the game. The enemy is constantly reacting to you, forcing mistakes if they panic and overreact (or if they just chill and under react), forcing them to defend while the Sicilian eco is untouched (albeit quite fragile) back home.

  4. As others have said, you can build up a sizeable army in Feudal / on the way up to Castle age which means the opponent either has to commit to weaker feudal units and delay their castle age much longer, or go up to castle with no defence and unable to build up a decently strong army until they hit Castle age.

  5. Every Donjon is an extra production building so you can field a bigger army faster than someone on 2 stable knights or 2 range crossbow.

  6. Each sargent is relatively cheap in gold cost compared to knights, which means monks are not a cost effective counter. And unlike a converted knight which can kill mangonels or villagers, a converted Sargent is almost useless because without Squires it’s slow af, so it dies to the other Sargants and forward Donjons pretty quickly.

  7. Forward Donjons can also make spears if enemy is going for knights.

  8. Donjons do more damage than towers so they are more effective vs. mangonels which are a common way of dealing with normal towers in castle age.

  9. Up to 10x Sargants / spearmen can garrison inside a Donjon and heal compared to only 5x units in a normal tower.

  10. Imperial age Donjons which don’t require any upgrades and are fully garrisoned with archers or villagers can defeat an enemy Keep. Hoardings also gives Donjons 44% more HP, whereas towers receive nothing from the same tech.

  11. Counter attacking a Sicilian might seem like the logical solution but it leaves your home too vulnerable to complete collapse without any defence and Sicilian player will have at least one Donjon at home, if not 2 or 3, so you will either not be able to do enough damage or you’ll lose all your knights in process. Donjons also allow up to 10x villagers to easily and quickly garrison, so the window for attack is much smaller, whereas only 5x vills in a normal tower means more vills left over for knights to pick off and less damage taken from a normal castle age tower.

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Serjeant is slow unit, it can’t raid effectively. Also Knights and Mangonels counter them easily. It should be countered without big problem I think. Monks also good counter, Serjeants isn’t that cheap unit like Skirmisher. 50f 35g worth it to use conversion. Actually I want some buff for Elite Sergeant. 12 Attack and 90 hp can be good.

Perfect description! There need to be a nerf. Let the dev’s make it balanced again.

Knights only counter them when they have enough numbers. The key point you’re missing is the fast castle age timing and the ability to build up Sargant numbers in feudal age. Knights without +2 in early castle age still die hard to a mass of Sargents and Donjons. And forward Donjons can make spears. Mangonels are also weaker vs. Donjons than towers.

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Knights +2/+2 and serjeant+3/+3. Monks will be outnumberd. Serjeant’s are not that slow. Will close the gap easily on mango’s.

They are very slow, 0.9 speed same as Longsword. If this strategy is OP, Vikings Longsword strategy is also OP, Vikings have also stronger eco than Sicilians. Mangonels with good micro will kill them easily. Also 3 Mangonels kill Donjons and Sicilians player no counter for that. Pro players will stop this strategy easily but I am aware that common player struggle against every kind of infantry strategies. Even Goths is very strong in non-pro games.

Knight is produced very fast, 30 seconds. Knight easily catch Serjeant numbers and kill them. Knight can force fight whenever they want and pull away low hp Knights. Knights doesn’t lose any numbers against Serjeant while killing bunch of them in every fight. I don’t see any strategy that 0.9 speed unit dominates opponents. If they had high bonus attack vs. building, this strategy could be strong. However, currently it is common player trap.

It sounds very reasonable what you say. But in practice it’s not that easy. And pro’s are also struggle:

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It is his first match against this strategy probably, he couldn’t react properly. Hera lost a lot of games against Hoang Strategy, too but no one uses Hoang Strat anymore because everyone knows to answer this strategy. Hera doesn’t have good reaction instinct against new strategies. I think we will see he will beat this strat within couple of days.

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