Nerfing the Halberdiers

Before you go berserk over the topic name, read the content. First we have proposed changes, then the effect.

Proposed changes:
Halberdiers get only +22 attack vs Cavalry (same as Pikemen).
Introduce a new armor class (Heavy Cavalry). Introducing this means that the Mamelukes can be reverted back to Cavalry class and lose the Mameluke class.
Halberdiers (only Halberdiers) get +10 attack bonus against this class.
This means that units with both Cavalry and Heavy Cavalry class will receive +32 damage overall as before.

Units with this Heavy Cavalry armor class:
Melee cavalry: All horse units except Scout Cavalry line, Steppe Lancers and Huszars.
Other units: War Elephants and War Wagons.

Keep in mind that Halberdiers’ attack vs Camels is unaffected since Camels are heavy on HP too. The Mameluke doesn’t get this armor class which means the idea that Halberdiers do -10 damage than normal to Mamelukes is implemented automatically. Mamelukes used to have both Cavalry and Camel Armor classes, if you didn’t know this. The Mameluke Armor class was introduced for this reason by removing the Cavalry armor class and preserving all attack bonuses except that of Halberdiers.

Reasoning: Cavalry Archers and Scout line units go down pretty fast with Halberdiers. Light Cavalry without Plate Barding, and all Light Cavalry/Hussar with less than 78 HP (like those of Britons, Teutons, Celts and Franks) go down in mere two hits. It is a similar story with Cavalry Archers. Though there is a lot of variables with Heavy Cavalry Archers.

Tanky Cavalry Archers like War Wagons and Elephant Archers usually take long. That’s why both of these have one more armor class to make them take extra damage. The former with Heavy Cavalry and the latter with Elephant.

The Elite Battle Elephant is strictly inferior to the Castle Age War Elephant, except for pierce armor, but takes the same damage from Halberdiers. The new armor class makes them take -10 damage upon each hit, going from 66 to 56 (55 for Burmese). The Elephant Armor class isn’t nerfed at all that’s why these numbers are way more than 32.

The gold cost of the Halberdier upgrade may be adjusted too, maybe costing only 450G.

PS: This also nerfs them against missionaries. Halberdiers used to kill them in 2 hits. Now them after 2 hits, missionaries will survive at 1 HP.

You want cavalry to dominate even further? Because that’s how you do it. Why nerf a unit that gets melted by almost everything? Post IMP Paladin easily beats a Halberdier 1v1. So they don’t even have the same population efficiency as a Paladin. Mamelukes are fine in terms of stats. Just a little costly in gold. (perhaps too costly) Halberdier should never even catch Mamelukes. Mamelukes do great damage to Halberdier.

Cavalry Archers can run away from Halberdiers and kill them with ease by kiting them. Scouts don’t cost gold, so they should die easy to Halberdiers, only fair.

Just use archers, scorpions, champs or hand cannoneer. Then bye bye Halberdiers. Or better yet, Persian trashbows to melt them.

2 Likes

You just read the first line and are ranting now. I repeat, Halberdiers are unchanged against everything except Scouts, Huszars, Lancers, Missionaries, Battle Elephants, and all Cavalry Archer units. However they are also unchanged against War Wagons.

A Paladin costs 75 gold more than the cost of Halberdiers. Trash 60 resources for both in late game.

Elephants are almost never made in 1v1. They belong in super boomer games of black forest/michi 4v4 where everyone sits back and chills.

Scouts do not cost gold, so Halberdiers rightfully kill them. Games can be ended early by simple scout rushes already. Cavalry Archer units can run away from Halberdiers and shoot them down with ease.

Paladins are hard to truly mass in 1v1. In 4v4, black forest/michi with lots of trade carts they wipe the floor with Halberdiers by population efficiency. Even War Elephants/Battle Elephants beat Halberdiers with ease if they outnumber them. (and you be a bad player if you only making War Elephants)

Why? As always behind every balance change what is your actual reason you think this should change?

Because that’s the main thing you need to do is convince everyone why this actually needs to change…

Is it because you don’t want to kite CA vs pikes?

Is it because you’re trying to make eles more spammable? Instead of having super hard counters?

You’re the same bruv that wants to implement that convoluted teuton arm change? And buff the s tier civs? So imo unless you have a really good reason for this halb change this topic is going the same direction as those others… Sorry to say…

And yet hussar is the most important trash unit. Because they are speeeed. They already dominate late imp, nerfing their counter will just make things worse.

i don’t see any reason to increase viability of ligth cav/hussar against halberdiers. Their raiding is already super strong, it would just make it hard to counter.

For cav archer, if they reach melee, it’s a mistake from the cav archer owner. And mistakes must be punished!

Agreed, once won a losing game with mass hussars

It was a TG, but still