Nest of Bees

It should shoot a lot of arrows that deal 1-2 dmg each - up to 32 arrows with low accuracy.
As it does not create enough arrow velocity to really pierce any type of armor.
It is basically, dropping arrows from high, in which the arrows don’t have enough momentum to take enough speed (velocity) to deal much dmg.

It was not used to kill soldiers. But to scare their enemies.
As it is very loud.

Yes, they were scary- but they also were effective at killing. And they fired javelins, not arrows.

But even if you were correct historically, your suggestion would make them an even worse unit than they already are. Nest of Bees is already considered too weak and your suggestion is to make them do barely any damage???

Iirc when they nerfed the nob they reduced both the damage and the number of projectiles. I think they should have just nerfed the damage and left the number of projectiles high so it still gave that sense of raining death without single handedly destroying an entire army. But 1-2 damage? That’s nuts


1-2 damage should be 600 arrows for balance


Javelins are thick and short. Which is heavier and a little bit longer than war arrows. Which makes it even useless.

According to my research, all of it says that it uses arrows.
Right now, the Nest of bees fires less than 10 arrows with 8 damage each. Historically, it was not used to kill but to create sound.

I just see it as how physics works and an arrow with such velocity is almost useless as it cannot pierce leather armours.

So, this is a game, not a war simulator. While I understand what you are saying, the game doesn’t need a unit just to make sound effects. It would be quite hilarious or not?

Many “Arrows” back then were 6-10x larger heavier and longer then the arrows we use today… so it was like shooting javelins. The terminology being used as arrows”” was only to differentiate between a nocked and fletched projectile, vs one thrown without fletching by hand.

The problem with Nest of Bees right now is that it’s supposed to be Chinese special version of Mangonel and a bit stronger, but in the actual game it’s actually much WEAKER than Mangonel and has lower DPS. It’s already over-nerfed, and you still want to nerf it further?

Well, we don’t have any surviving examples of the Nest of Bees afaik, just a reference in a Chinese technical document. However, we have tons of documentation on the Korean Hwacha, which the Koreans reverse-engineered from the Chinese nest of bees. 3,000 Korean soldiers were able to fight off a Japanese force of 30,000 using hwachas - I don’t think that would have been possible if they were just “scary sounding.” Secondly, the arrows were rocket-propelled and fired at a low trajectory, so no it wouldn’t be only the force of gravity. If you watch the Mythbuster’s clip where they fire a hwacha you can see that the rockets are still lit when they hit and the projectiles are coming in at a flat angle.

Age of empires 4 - The Best Unique Units Tier List

Nest of Bees is D Tier.