yes I think you need at least 3 if you garrison all 8 (I did all 4 to be safe) and that’s counting the 350f extra under the TC.
Yeah that’s the problem. I like the idea of it but i was from the beginning convinced that it can be only broken or underwhelming…hard to balance sth. like dat
It also encourages ur opponents to lame ur sheeps so i guess this will be not my favourite civ haha
my BO is like (I came up with it myself after watching a 5 min SoTL video):
- 6 to berries (spread between the TC and mill ones)
- start taking wood at ~10 pop from
- take Boar as early as possible to ensure that vills under TC don’t idle.
Basically I do what makes sense to take each resource as late as I can.
Also scouting with sheep, particularly on Arabia, is fundamental.
Did I say you use them against Jap champs? Did I say they are remotely comparable?
I’m pointing out Why gurj shouldn’t get champs, because you mocked the Devs for not giving them champs
Basically gonna end here. I don’t see the point of arguing with people that resorts to a straw man
You can learn the slow way
What part of their kit make you think so? On paper they look similar than before. Better scout rush because of teambonus, camels less tanky but deal nore damage…
Bombard cannon with pierce armor looks interesting.
I agree. A lot of people seem to be saying the Dravidians are bad, but they have very similar strengths to Malay or Japanese. A little less flexible, but with a much better UU
I’m recording my early day 1 experiences with each civ and uploading them to YT, if anyone’s interested in that experience! But my first impressions (as an 1100ish player):
Bengalis: the 2 vills each age-up are really nice, and the Ratha is a really fun UU. The melee/range adaptability is really nice, but what I love is that they are a wood-gold power unit, so they’re easier to mass up other powerful Bengal options which are food heavy (eles, archer eles, siege eles, etc.)
Dravidians: I haven’t played with Urumi swordsmen yet, but the cheaper barracks are really nice and have encouraged some fun infantry strategies. Combining infantry with faster firing elephant archers is an absolute blast (I never played them much as an Indian UU, but they are so much fun as a regional unit). I’m seeing a lot of people playing them as a straight archer civ.
Gurjara: The hardest civ for me personally, both because the early eco is so unique and requires a lot of micro (at least, I assume that simply leaving the sheep in the mill is sub-optimal play), and because their strength is in countering their opponents. I’m really enjoying the Chakram thrower.
Hindustanis: Ghulam are a blast, and their camels seem much better as an all-arounder unit. They seem much improved from the old Indians.
I think that 4/4, these new civs are great. Maybe some are stronger or weaker than they should be, but at least conceptually, they’re great and I’m loving playing with them.
How do you counter mass Halb in Imperial? Or Halb + Arba fast Imp/regular timing Imp?
Basically if it’s 200 pop vs 200 pop, not an opponent who does 20 Pikemen and no secondary unit, what do you do?
Idk what 1100 elo players do, from my experience they tend to boom and spam heavily 1 gold unit and don’t really do army comps (they do, but not the “right” way, i.e. waiting for upgrades as late as possible, for example in ~1500 elo where I play, idk if others do that but it’s common to do +1 no Bloodlines Knights to counter Mangonels whereas a 1100 could be tempted to switch into Knights (as an Archer civ) the moment they see a ton of Scorpions/Mangonels).
In any case, in my opinion, Gurjaras cannot counter Halb + Siege, Halb + Arbalest or even mostly Crossbow with a few Pikeman mixed in to screen Shrivamsha Riders.
I actually realized that these guys have the best Elephant Archers also, initially I thought that would be Bengalis due to UT + Parthian Tactics but turns out the innate +25% faster firing bonus from Dravidians + presence of Thumb Ring is stronger overall.
I think even if the devs are trying hard to push Elephant Archers, they aren’t a great unit, so I haven’t really been using this unit in ranked a lot but that’s worth mentioning because unlike Malay Gurjaras don’t get a good Stable (arguably their Stable is even worse than Malay because they don’t even get speed upgrade) and notably unlike Malay they get no BBC which means keep your Castles up at all costs because if you lose them the only other option you have to break enemy Castles is Siege Elephants (which are about as good as Siege Rams vs Castles, i.e. not very good).
Yet to give judgement on how strong the new civs are, however I like that they went with a “spotty tech-tree but lots of strong bonusses and unique units” design for these.
I think against that the shrivamsha shakram was intended. And thie will certainly work against halb siege. And probably also against halb arbs in imp as the imp shrivamsha is so much stronger with its bigger shield. But they can struggle against mass xbows in castle.
I don’t even think the archer players need to tech into pikes in castle against gurjaras, most likely just massing the archer units will work.
the approach can work, a bad tech tree can still make for a strong civ (tons of examples of this like Poles, Turks, Aztecs, Huns) IF you buff the strengths enough. In case of new civs, mostly the new UUs must be buffed.
Gurjaras: buff Shrivamsha Rider and they are likely fine. Shrivamsha Rider should be a unit that when Gurjaras player techs into, you are forced to transition out of Archer-line.
Bengalis: these are fine imo, only true weakness they have is that their eco bonus kicks in late (compared to say Mongols whose eco bonus starts in Dark Age). Nice tech tree too.
Dravidians: clear weakness in countering Hussar spam and also can’t really beat Castles with anything other than Trebs. But overall fine, no buffs needed, solid Bish tier civ.
Hindustanis: also fine, incidentally they took away 3 bonuses I realized: no more extra PA in Castle Age for Stable units, no more Parthian Tactics but the one I realized only today that they took away is no more faster Fishermen (so there isn’t a clear pick on those maps with fish ponds like Alpine Lake anymore)
Didn’t say that approach can’t work. Its kinda like Ensemble did with the Meso-Civs:
Spotty tech-tree (No Stable and gunpowder) but really great eco-bonusses and Eagle warriors to compensate. I have the feeling these new civs aren’t as strong as the meso civs, but if they are middle of the pack thats good enough.
I think the only one that will see regular play is Bengalis, Dravidians will maybe be picked on water maps.
I wasn’t disagreeing with you, merely expanding on the subject.
If you ask me, hindustan I are conpetley busted now. They were already a top 5 civ. I predict them to lead in general open map winrates pretty soon.
What can go wrong with cheaper villa +10% gold UT + 25% gold with trade route with caravans, + even better imperial camels + hc that are actually great, BBC that deal 50% as much dmanage from for example FU skirms, ah and for good measure, let’s give them huskarls with aoe and elegant siege rams.
Of coirse they also get FU hussar and FU skirms in case of trash wars.
Yeah, no way this civ will be broken…
Just open lets say Italians civ tree and check their bonuses on land maps. It’s laughably unfair on land maps
That +1/+1 gunpowder should be removed. This civ got too much
Since when? TheViper in his last YT video rated them, iirc, “B tier with a lot of problems”, leaning toward C-tier. Sure, they have one of the best eco bonuses, but it also kicks in VERY late. Sure, their former CA was nice, but other civs also have a good CA, like Mongols or Tatars and better eco on top. What holds old Indians back, however, is how much they rely on mounted units. Viper said that “they die to full Halb” and idk if that’s true but it sounds reasonable. Also, having no Knight is sort of a big deal.
the fact that every one of these bonuses kicks in a min 25+ of a typical game. Not every map is Arena or Forest Nothing, on some maps, civs manage to get an advantage far earlier than that, for example compare Hindustanis to Khmer on Arabia, Khmer save 175w and can do a rly strong Archer rush (with potential to do it early also/Tati rush style), they also have faster working farms, meanwhile you as Hindustanis until Castle Age saved like maybe 200f.
the unit is not even close to a Huskarl because it doesn’t even remotely kill buildings as well. Huskarls can kill Castles without assistance.
they have no Knight-line and no Arbalest, hell even their CA got nerfed to be as good as… Lithuanians CA (which isn’t seen a lot ). They have a gimmicky unit here and there to compensate for lack of classic “power units”.
Too early to say but it does have many weaknesses. I feel like they might do fine against civs like Berbers or Huns when they go for Camel-skirms and a few shrivamsha riders to raid. UU is actually very good. Once you hit 25-30+ they seem quite powerful. To me this civ feels like a weaker Malians, same strong camels, good raiding potential but no eco bonus and no good infantry.
They’re actually good in handling isolated groups of archers. Obviously they’re not as strong as Paladin or some other heavy cavalry unit but fare much better than light cav. Problem is when the archer player uses some meat shield unit. Then these units become completely useless.
Yes, they feel quite solid. Good bonus of getting 2 extra vills too for TGs and late game play. Not an arabia tg civ but for walled or wallable maps or fc-uu maps, they feel like a great pick.
I’d say weaker than Malay for 1v1 closed maps but stronger in TG. Also a niche civ. Probably very good for maps where feudal age aggression is common. Like Land Madness/Sand Forest, Atacama etc.
Don’t know what A-- is xD but I’d give B, A, C, A for tg and C, A, B, B for 1v1 for Gurjaras, Hindustanis, Dravidians and Bengalis
So after a day of playing I can say I really like the new dcl. The civs are pretty fun and also quite good without being too strong (like others in the past). The elephant ram performs surprisingly well imo and even elephant archers are insanely strong in post imp battles.
I played a lot with them and gotta say on open maps they seem very strong. At first I was kinda sad about the Indian rework as I found them super fun to play. Go greedy boom and then light cav to defend from xbow or cav archer vs pike siege. But now I like new Hindustanis maybe even better 11 They can work similarly indeed. You are flexible in your opening and then you have that insane booming eco. You are still unlikely to face knights so it’s still xbows or infantry siege you’ll mostly play against. I were pressured in basically all the games and after either siege or skirm defense getting the UU. If you survive until that point it’s usually gg. The ghulam is simply an insane unit. From what I have seen today it’s the strongest of the new units. It’s like a huskarl with a bit of splash dmg. Decimates everything that isn’t heavy cav in no time. Pretty sure it’s gonna be nerfed next patch.
On open maps I tried out the other civs so cant comment but on most of my are arena/hideout games I played bengalis and they are super strong there. Firstly that eco. That actually might be the single best eco civ for closed maps. 4 extra vils without paying anything for it.
And then their late game comp is extremely powerful. Elephant archer onager monk is impossible to stop for most civs if they get there. Really good arena civ.
Like Ou said, stiff kicks in at 25 min+.
Problem is, alot kicks in.
No easy they die to full halb with the best hc in the game by a long shot.
There lategame in tramganes will be oppressive
Hard disagree. They are just a good unit, not just a trash wars unit