# New Civs: Northern African Civ / Berbers, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, or Habsburg Monarchy **URL:** \ **Category:** III - Discussion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894 "2024-02-14T20:51:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![IVIACHINE](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/iviachine/32/164359_2.png) [@IVIACHINE](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/IVIACHINE)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 8:51pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/1 "2024-02-14T20:51:57Z")
Guarantee it. The game is centered around Empires in the 1500s-1800s Let’s hear your opinions. ---
**Author:** ![BaphometSLM](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/baphometslm/32/148191_2.png) [@BaphometSLM](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/BaphometSLM)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/2 "2024-02-14T22:28:52Z")
I like how confident you are about your predictions. How could you guarantee it exactly? Also, there’s already a bunch of civs in the game that weren’t empires. ---
**Author:** ![GaiusMegas](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/gaiusmegas/32/67801_2.png) [@GaiusMegas](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/GaiusMegas)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 10:36pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/3 "2024-02-14T22:36:39Z")
Habsburg with “b” _20 characters_ ---
**Author:** ![Kingfisher1787](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kingfisher1787/32/142926_2.png) [@Kingfisher1787](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Kingfisher1787)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/4 "2024-02-14T22:46:38Z")
I’m guessing he’s guessing. ---
**Author:** ![ArkadasLlisa](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/arkadasllisa/32/114107_2.png) [@ArkadasLlisa](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/ArkadasLlisa)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2024, 11:09pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/5 "2024-02-14T23:09:36Z")
Habsburg is already here as Germans and Spanish ---
**Author:** ![Jonasnee8581](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonasnee8581/32/72521_2.png) [@Jonasnee8581](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Jonasnee8581)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 5:52am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/6 "2024-02-15T05:52:35Z")
they will not add Austria, you can be guaranteed of that, devs have straight up said that. if its going to be Europeans it will be Danes and Poles, there is no other options. ---
**Author:** ![MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matm1996/32/29566_2.png) [@MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatM1996)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:35am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/7 "2024-02-15T08:35:23Z")
They can still put in an Alpine DLC with Switzerland and Liechtenstein and a Balkan DLC with Greece and Wallachia-Moldova xd… ---
**Author:** ![Jonasnee8581](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/jonasnee8581/32/72521_2.png) [@Jonasnee8581](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Jonasnee8581)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:43am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/8 "2024-02-15T08:43:19Z")
i know its kind of a meme with Liechtenstein. but AFAIK Tilanus views the Swiss as part of “germans”, that was at least the impression i got from what he said about not splitting Germans up like he did in NW. ---
**Author:** ![MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matm1996/32/29566_2.png) [@MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatM1996)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/9 "2024-02-15T08:50:26Z")
But the Germans do not have any Swiss reference in the deck, furthermore Switzerland has been independent of the HRE since 1291… and the Swiss pikeman is not exactly “wow the great representation”… ---
**Author:** ![Notonline1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/notonline1/32/146888_2.png) [@Notonline1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Notonline1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/10 "2024-02-15T08:50:59Z")
you mean the dogshit designed german civ, that can’t represent either the HRE, nor the Habsburg monarchy, nor prussia. NVM other “germans” which considering Tilanus has seemingly no understanding off at all. @MatM1996 the correct date for de facto independence is 1648 though the distancing started around the 1350’s with the institutionalisation of the Tagsatzung. Also the pikemen is, just like the papal guard, wrong for multiple reasons allready brougt up. ---
**Author:** ![MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matm1996/32/29566_2.png) [@MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatM1996)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:53am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/11 "2024-02-15T08:53:18Z")
For me the Germans symbolize the HRE, that’s why it’s a weird concoction… > [@Notonline](#): > > @MatM1996 the correct date for de facto independence is 1648 though the distancing started around the 1350’s with the institutionalisation of the Tagsatzung. True, but it had already existed since 1291, what the Peace of Westphalia did was recognize its existence and independence and that the HRE would no longer try to re-annex it again… The **Old Swiss Confederacy** , also known as **Switzerland** , or the **Swiss Confederacy** [[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Swiss_Confederacy#cite_note-6) was a loose [confederation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confederation) of independent small states (_[cantons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantons_of_Switzerland)_, German _[Orte](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Ort#German)_ or _[Stände](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Stand#German)_ [[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Swiss_Confederacy#cite_note-7)), initially within the [Holy Roman Empire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire). It is the precursor of the modern state of [Switzerland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland). It formed during the 13th century, from a [nucleus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundation_of_the_Old_Swiss_Confederacy) in what is now [Central Switzerland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Switzerland), [expanding](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_the_Old_Swiss_Confederacy) to include the cities of [Zürich](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z%C3%BCrich) and [Bern](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bern) by the middle of the century. This formed a rare union of rural and urban [communes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_commune), all of which enjoyed [imperial immediacy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_immediacy) in the Holy Roman Empire. This confederation of eight cantons (_Acht Orte_) was politically and militarily successful for more than a century, culminating in the [Burgundy Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgundy_Wars) of the 1470s which established it as a power in the complicated political landscape dominated by [France](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_France) and the [Habsburgs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Habsburg_monarchy). (Here it would justify its existence as a civ in AoE 2 too)…Its success resulted in the addition of more confederates, increasing the number of cantons to thirteen (_Dreizehn Orte_) by 1513. The confederacy pledged [neutrality](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_neutrality) in 1647 (under the threat of the [Thirty Years’ War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War)), although many Swiss served privately as [mercenaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_mercenaries) in the [Italian Wars](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Wars) and during the [early modern](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Modern_Switzerland) period. After the [Swabian War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swabian_War) of 1499 the confederacy was a _de facto_ independent state throughout the [early modern period](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_period), although still nominally part of the Holy Roman Empire until 1648 when the [Treaty of Westphalia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Westphalia) ended the [Thirty Years’ War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years%27_War). The Swiss Reformation divided the confederates into Reformed and Catholic parties, resulting in internal conflict from the 16th to the 18th centuries; as a result, the federal diet (_[Tagsatzung](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tagsatzung)_) was often paralysed by hostility between the factions. The Swiss Confederacy fell to invasion by the [French Revolutionary Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolutionary_Army) in 1798, after which it became the short-lived [Helvetic Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetic_Republic). ---
**Author:** ![Notonline1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/notonline1/32/146888_2.png) [@Notonline1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Notonline1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 8:55am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/12 "2024-02-15T08:55:04Z")
And what do they represent of the germans? Half the elector counts were religious, nothing there at all to point that out. Habsburgs? Nope. Heavy infantry something the germans were known for, like prussian grenadiers and Lineinfantry are completely locked behind cards and or not there at all. 30 Years war? Nope nothing at all. But we got a single czeck (more correctly Bohemian) unit the war-wagon. ---
**Author:** ![Notonline1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/notonline1/32/146888_2.png) [@Notonline1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Notonline1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 9:00am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/13 "2024-02-15T09:00:18Z")
Thanks i have a minor in history and i am swiss and 1291 is mythos and less reality, which is unsurprising for wikipedia as it is wrong very often. Correctly the Old confederacy established itself as an institution less off an alliance after the 1350s. ---
**Author:** ![MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matm1996/32/29566_2.png) [@MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatM1996)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 9:11am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/14 "2024-02-15T09:11:27Z")
> [@Notonline](#): > > And what do they represent of the germans? Half the elector counts were religious, nothing there at all to point that out. > Habsburgs? Nope. Heavy infantry something the germans were known for, like prussian grenadiers and Lineinfantry are completely locked behind cards and or not there at all. 30 Years war? Nope nothing at all. But we got a single czeck (more correctly Bohemian) unit the war-wagon. Good point, yes it is quite a topic… > [@Notonline](#): > > Thanks i have a minor in history and i am swiss and 1291 is mythos and less reality, which is unsurprising for wikipedia as it is wrong very often. Correctly the Old confederacy established itself as an institution less off an alliance after the 1350s. Of course, Switzerland had its great creation and expansion between the 14th and 16th centuries…from there it maintained its well-known neutrality throughout the early modern era… ---
**Author:** ![UpmostRook9474](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/upmostrook9474/32/47514_2.png) [@UpmostRook9474](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/UpmostRook9474)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 9:13am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/15 "2024-02-15T09:13:40Z")
> [@Notonline](#): > > And what do they represent of the germans? I’m pretty sure if the current devs were to make Germans, they would have better representation of the Holy Roman Empire, Habsburg and Prussia. Changing old civs cannot make money, so it is difficult to see them changing completely. We lack a time machine to go back to 2005. If there were a time machine, I would like to buy a few more stocks of Apple and TSMC first than the better Germans design lol. ---
**Author:** ![Notonline1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/notonline1/32/146888_2.png) [@Notonline1](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/Notonline1)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 9:14am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/16 "2024-02-15T09:14:55Z")
And then they fail again with f.e. the papal guard? (Nvm the lakota clubmen) And here i thought the remaster was there to, you know, remaster. ---
**Author:** ![MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matm1996/32/29566_2.png) [@MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatM1996)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 9:29am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/17 "2024-02-15T09:29:46Z")
> [@UpmostRook9474](#): > > I’m pretty sure if the current devs were to make Germans, they would have better representation of the Holy Roman Empire, Habsburg and Prussia. Changing old civs cannot make money, so it is difficult to see them changing completely. Someday, if they can, they will deign to do the German rework of creating Prussia (you give them Frederick the Great) and rename the Germans in Austrians (you give them Maria Theresa)… ---
**Author:** ![çallapin](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/%C3%A7allapin/32/146281_2.png) [@çallapin](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/%C3%A7allapin)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 10:53am UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/18 "2024-02-15T10:53:30Z")
> [@Notonline](#): > > you mean the dogshit designed german civ, that can’t represent either the HRE, nor the Habsburg monarchy, nor prussia. Don’t forget the original civs were meant to represent their namesake presence in foreign, untamed lands. ---
**Author:** ![StoreyedPlate74](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/storeyedplate74/32/146991_2.png) [@StoreyedPlate74](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/StoreyedPlate74)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 12:02pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/19 "2024-02-15T12:02:35Z")
> [@MatM1996](#): > > , but it had already existed since 1291, what the Peace of Westphalia did was recognize its existence and independence and that the HRE would no longer try to re-annex it again > [@Notonline](#): > > Correctly the Old confederacy established itself as an institution less off an alliance after the 1350s. But what you said is pretty much consistent with Wikipedia. It started as a loose alliance of HRE subjects and over the centuries it was slowly consolidated as a de facto unique identity with its independence officially recognized in 1648, right? Or am i missing something here? ---
**Author:** ![MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/matm1996/32/29566_2.png) [@MatM1996](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/MatM1996)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2024, 12:14pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894/20 "2024-02-15T12:14:40Z")
Yes, it’s quite a topic…perhaps we could divide the Swiss into 2 periods: medieval (that is, AoE 2) (1291-1648): creation and expansion of the Swiss confederation until achieving its definitive independence in 1648, and early modern (that is, AoE 3) (1648-1848): several religious revolts in towns and counties and the French invasion of 1798 until the constitution of modern Switzerland in 1848 after a brief civil war… [Next page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/new-civs-northern-african-civ-berbers-polish-lithuanian-commonwealth-or-habsburg-monarchy/248894.md?page=2)