Complete fictional or only for the khitans?
Complete fiction. It’s possible some Chinese soldiers used them. But the combination of the sword, armour and being on foot is fictional.
You have already got your answer :
Well, the actual answer is obviously “It depends”. Some doesn’t consider Composite Archer unique enough as their performance very much match Chu-Ko-Nu.
1 Like
Mameluke has bonus against cavalry, whereas Jarl is said to be anti-infantry.
Don’t bother arguing, some people just hate anything not done by Ensemble Studios
That is unique enough for me. But not everyone will agree. Mameluke can also be anti-infantry enough as long as you hit & run.
2 Likes
All I want is for the Viking Berserker’s appearance to be updated to reflect historical reality. I realize that back in 1999, developers lacked the wealth of information available today—due to the limited resources on the internet and in libraries—which led them to fantasize about horned helmets, axe-throwers, and Mamluks hurling scimitars. However, the advent of modern telecommunications has changed everything; today, it is easy to know what Vikings were actually like, free from the horned-helmet stereotype. That is why I hope the developers might revisit the Viking Berserker design, ensuring they look authentic—clad in bearskins and wielding axes—and better capturing that famous berserker trance that struck terror into enemies as these warriors charged into battle, animal skins and all, unleashing brutal, bestial fury with their axes.
5 Likes
Mate, I’ve been waiting years for this change, since that Korean cart makes no real historical sense in the game. Any unit is fine, as long as it’s a truly Korean unit from the medieval era.
2 Likes
Pretty sure this is also just fantasy,why would one not wear helmets armor when charging into battle head on?
The Longboat is becoming a regional unit now in the Longship, right?
Plus the Varangian Guards and the Mounted Crossbowmen. That means that this is the first time we have three ‘regional’ units being shared among civs.
Bengalis and Dravidians with 3 elephant regional units. Jurchens and Chinese with 3 regional units. 3k civs also have 3 regional units.
1 Like
google “norman castles” and you will see examples
the eastern asian ones also share three units
- fire lancer
- traction trebuchet
- lou chuan
Scientist knew that already back then and any decent history book would have told you that. They intentionally decided to portrait them wrong because they wanted to have a “cool” unit that people would recognise.
Ensemble Studios was honestly really bad when it came to historical accuracy in general…
- Why do you think that all new civs will have all of those 3 regional units?
- The Indian civs share 3 different Elephants, the 3 Kingdoms share Lou Chuan, Traction Trebuchet and Hei Guang Cavalry, the Chinese and Jurchans share Lou Chuan, Fire Lance and Rocker Cart, the South American civs share Champi, Slinger and Catapult Galleon, Khitans and Jurchens share Rocket Carts, Fire Lancer and Steppe Lancer
4 Likes
I think there’s some truth to this. Early AoE games definitely simplified and romanticized history to create recognizable civs and iconic units.
However, the difference is that back then, most civs still had a strong connection between their historical image and gameplay identity.
For example, Vikings had Berserkers, strong ships, and a strong eco. Mongols had mobility and cav archers. Franks had knights. Japanese had Samurai and infantry themes.
Some details were still exaggerated or inaccurate (Japan’s Kataparuto is a good example), but overall, the player’s image of a civ and its gameplay direction were usually aligned.
The challenge today isn’t to remove historical abstraction completely. AoE has always used some level of simplification. The challenge is keeping those iconic identities while making civ mechanics deeper and more meaningful.
What was iconic in the 90s is not really iconic today. There were a lot of popular Viking themed, games, movies and series that depicted them more correctly in the last 25 years so people today have a different idea about how a Viking should look like.
But now the Berserk in AoE2 is iconic within AoE2. For someone who picks up AoE2 today the unit will feel out of place but many old fans don’t want the look of the old units to be changed.
6 Likes
Not fantasy as such, but the image is very speculative. The idea of berserkers dressed like that seems to be based on images like this one, from the Torslunda plates:
.jpg)
But as far as I can tell, the idea that the figure on the right is a berserker is conjecture that isn’t really supported by evidence – although I’m happy to be corrected if there is evidence for this. (Ironic that the figure on the left is wearing a horned helmet! Some people think that’s Odin, but again, this seems to be conjecture.)
The Koreans used armoured wagons in the Imjin War, although they were more like Hussite wagons with built in guns rather than the War Wagon depicted in game. Here’s a modern reconstruction:
(source 망암 변이중 화차, 시연발사 ‘성공’ - 장성뉴스)
2 Likes
They just followed the pop culture of that time.
That doesn’t sound like a bad idea, but that’s too late… I’d go for medieval Sweden (1100-1611) instead…
That’s the berserker (both in AoMR and AoE 4)…
Yes, I thought they were going to put the Saxons in a German DLC, but they’re not bad in a Norse DLC either, since they would represent the Anglo-Saxon Heptarchy (Northumbria, Mercia and East Anglia (of the Angles/Britons), Wessex, Essex and Sussex (of the Saxons) and Kent (of the Jutes/Danes)…
Yes, I would add the Croatians too…
Yes, like in AoM and AoEO…
Yes, medieval English as such (from the Norman dynasty to the Tudors)…
Revolution…Independence is going to be a different story altogether…
Exactly…if they manage to introduce the Aragonese civilization, that could be corrected…
Technically, it’s because they also represent the Crimean Goths who lasted until the 18th century…
Yes, in Wars of Liberty (a mod of classic AoE 3) at least the Koreans have more accurate unique units:
Unique Units
Jeobju: Korean Mounted Donghak Monk. Can boost his attack through the 7 saint spears ability. Can stun treasure guardians and collect treasures.
Byeolgigun: Ranged gunpowder Heavy Infantry. Good against cavalry, particularly at range.
Myeong Gung: Archer. Good against heavy infantry and Ranged Cavalry.
Dangpa Spearman: Archaic Heavy Infantry. Good against cavalry and buildings.
Fire Lance: Skirmisher infantry that fires rockets to defeat heavy infantry.
Gungdo Cavalry: Light Cavalry armed with a bow. Good against cavalry and artillery.
Iron Flail: Heavy Cavalry. Good against infantry and artillery.
Chongtong: Artillery unit. Good against artillery and buildings.
Hwacha: Artillery unit. Good against infantry, has considerable range.
Fire Cattle: Suicide unit. Good against buildings.
Hyeopson: Light Battleship.
Panokseon: Heavy Battleship. Can train units.
Turtle Ship: Armored Battleship.
The Woad Rider is not fictional, but rather anachronistic (it would fit better for the Celts, but from Antiquity)…
Yes, the one from AoE 3 is more accurate using a white horse instead of a camel…
Nah, Forgotten Empires has made some very good DLCs throughout the saga, it’s just that sometimes they’ve “missed the mark”…
It’s because they used historical books from public libraries from the late 1990s, many of which are now outdated or extremely stereotypical…
Yes, that’s noticeable in Age of Empires 3 too, even though it’s a 2005 game with Wikipedia already available for research. You have pirates, cowboys, and ninjas all in the same game… Age of Empires 4 and the latest DLCs in the series try to correct that for new generations of players…
2 Likes
The wording of the steam page:
Leverage the 6 new units across these new civilizations, including 3 shared units:
•Varangian Guards — deadly shock infantry who generate gold while fighting and excel at raiding and melee combat.
•Mounted Crossbowmen — hard-hitting but slow-firing ranged cavalry who strike fear into infantry armies.
•Longships — swift warships that combine potency and versatility.
2 Likes