Yes, it’s kind of complex… but let’s say you have unique reskins and at the same time unique units that replace generic units or even regional units… it’s like if AoE 2 only had unique skins and units… that’s because Ensemble went from having generic units in AoE 2 to only unique units in AoM, and AoE 3 aimed to be something in between, but at the same time be very unique within the historical period it covers with the whole topic of minor natives, mercenaries, and outlaws (basically mercenaries but “outside the law” as says their name)… AoE 3 is kind of difficult when you first start playing it, but once you get the hang of it, it’s a masterpiece (which people would play more if it had more campaigns like AoE 2)…
Sure, but in AoE2DE the same units for different civs also have different stats, costs and training times. Like that table for Mounted Crossbowmen in this thread. So, how is this fundametally different?
but those are different things:
I think you would find more support for skins that change based on what upgrade a unit has, ie establishing a clear link visual ↔ gameplay
rn, we have the case that many units look the same, sometimes with different stats basically a 1:many mapping
with regional skins we would have units that look different, but have the same stats AND units that looks the same but have different stats, ie a many:many mapping this adds more confusion
1 Like
Again, here’s the thing - you want a competitive MP mode, where it’s easier to run numbers. I want a SP mode, where immersion is maximized. Not only these are not mutually exclusive, but the solution is so obvious that I have no idea what is there to argue about - give the SP crowd regional skins and make sure MP crowd can turn them off.
1 Like
I mean if we’re gonna be civil about this, we should put such a thing to vote.
What the individual wants is meaningless in the face of the collective.
instead of repeating myself, I’ll just quote myself
but we have no trust in the devs to make this optional, as they force so much other shit on us
nothing should be forced on others, even based on a vote
1 Like
Mounted crossbowmen all have the same base stats, which are then affected by whatever relevant upgrades and bonuses the civ has, like every generic unit in the game. The units in AoE3 are different units with similar roles.
I mean, sure, the AoE3 devs could have implemented all these units as generic units affected by bonuses instead of separate units entirely. But as an example, if they had done this, Japanese would have a civ bonus that says something like:
Musketeers cost 5 more food and 15 more coin, and have +20 hit points, and train 10% slower, and deal +1 ranged damage and +1 siege damage and -3 hand damage, and +50% bonus damage against cavalry, and…
Hopefully you get the picture. I didn’t even list all the differences. You might as well ask why AoE2 doesn’t have a toggle to make ghulams look like eagle warriors.
Based on the precedent already set by regional skins for monks, trade carts, and buildings, and by unique skins for castles, there would not be a built-in toggle for this.
1 Like
We need to campaign for this toggle to exist 
1 Like
this should be the standard for everything. For everything but graphics this was even promised when aoe2DE was being promoted. Every feature they add re-breaks that promise
2 Likes
Tbf, there is something like tyranny of the majority, but the majority can be brain dead sometimes. Majority vote makes sense in things that could go either way.
My position is the opposite. It looks wrong to those who want immersion and want the game to be as accurate as possible. It’s the casual that would get confused and overwhelmed over time. I’m the latter when it comes to AoE3, and it’s one of the reason why I find it difficult to get into that, or into AoM.
It’s not a competitive matter in my mind. And I don’t think immersion matters that much to the casual RTS players in particular. Or at least, a good portion of them couldn’t tell the difference.
Same with Europe, where you can cut it four, five or more ways. Or with Indians being separate from Southeast Asia. Or Africa having multiples. Or same with Americas.
This is a much deeper rabbit hole than you think.
To my understanding there’s multiple tags of ranged gunpowder unit classification.
1 Like
I’m sure using dev time and resources for toggles that at most a dozen people will use will be a good use of resources.
Granted I would actually want a way to toggle between DE and HE graphics.
At the same time the Devs can’t cater to the whims of every single person who is a part of this community. If they did, they’d have to remove DE and HD because some puritans legit want then games wholesale wiped from existence so they can play CD instead.
At the end of the day this is a business and the business focuses on what’s popular. Be it releasing a Viking themed DLC because the Vikings are pop culture icons or being selective on what features to included based on how frequently demanded it is.
We fundamentally do not have any choice in this matter once we agree to the ToS and after that point they have no obligation to listen to our feedback unless it’s to guarantee our patronage. It sucks, but that is business, it’s how this shit works for most games nowadays.
adding a toggle like that is an extremely minor feature, and it’s standard practice to have something like this in the development cycle anyway for testing
2 Likes
This is not a democracy, at the end of the day if Microsoft feels that they could monetize the I+D of new skins they will add them, and if they feels is not the right path they just won’t.
The main problem (or relief for some) is that there are around 25 units that should be modeled for each set and they should make at least 3 new sets (asia, middle east, america)… 75 new models is a lot of work
Not saying it is imposible as we got new skins for UU and monks not so long ago
Who wants this? I’ve never heard/read anyone ask for anything like this. It doesn’t make any sense – HD and DE don’t prevent anyone from playing the CD version.
(Also, you should look up the word puritan – it doesn’t mean what you think it means.)
It’s the same principle as the small trees toggle. Unless they’re completely incompetent (which is not inconceivable) it should be straightforward to set up something similar for regional skins.
3 Likes
the immersion of 1 woman traveling to an island and building a castle that spawns trebuchets, just like Montezuma did it for real for real!
1 Like
Are you telling me the Battle of Texas, between Montezuma and Attila the Hun, is a lie?
5 Likes
Its not. Atilla knew how to use Turkeys to scout his base and find berries and used clubmen in leather to rush the Aztecs before they had feudal technology like javelins!
2 Likes
You are comparing adding a few new skins (we are not talking about unique skins for every single civilisation like AoE4 has) to learning an entirely new game. That is not the same thing.
An old school RTS player is used to the compromises that old RTS games had to do 25+ years ago (Empire Earth 1 for example has the same architecture and of course unit models for all civilisations because they had to cover the entire human history), but new players that are not familiar with this genre will expect more. If you know nothing about the game and then you see a screenshot of Aztecs where you see Champions with plate armour you likely assume that they are Spanish units attacking them but then you get confused because they have the same colour as the Jaguar Warriors.
Having units look different can improve readability because you can more quickly tell who they belong to.
But in the end readability really depends on how well the skins are made. If a Mayan Arbalester starts looking more like a Plumed Archer then a European Arbalester then people might confuse those units. Though at the end almost all Archer looking units do more or less the same and have more or less the same counters. Even if you confuse a Blackwood Archer, Fire Archer, Longbow or Plumed Archer the counter is the same. “But the Blackwood Archer has poison” yeah but the Tupi Arbalester has even more poison and looks the same as any other.
When I’m new to a game I like zooming in and looking at the units in detail. I’m pretty sure a lot of people do that. You want to see how the game looks like before you start trying to play more optimal.
Also campaigns have “cut scenes” in AoE2 which focus the camera on single units that are being highlighted. There it becomes even more obvious when a unit looks out of place. Though you can kinda see how the developers are trying to avoid using generic units in none European settings.
You could always use a mod to revert it. It would be super easy to make a multiplayer compatible mod that just reverts the skins back to default. The mod would probably not even brake in most updates.
But modding in regional skins now requires to change the Dateset which makes it incompatible with multiplayer and also destined to brake on ever single update.
Those were a lot less controversial changes though. A lot of people have been crying about not wanting regional skins because of readability.
That is kinda what they did with Europeans. The different Royal Guard upgrades (and some home city cards) change both the stats and appearance of generic units.
The Asian Dynasties Expansion back in the day felt kind of like a fan mod because they implemented a bunch of things in a strange way like the Japanese Barracks and Stable are different buildings from the generic Barracks and Stable for no good reason. This expansion was partly made by a different team back in the day so that could explain that.
So the game had 3 development teams over it’s live time (Ensemble Studios, Big Huge Games (The Asian Dynasties) and now Forgotten Empires) which you can kinda see in the different ways things are being implemented. Forgotten Empires were the ones that added the visual differences to the different Royal Guard upgrades, something the original game didn’t have.
AoE3 also has map specific building skins for some buildings like Trade Posts and now unique skins for the Regent (unit for Regicide gamemode) that depend on the region of the world you play in and not on your civilisation.
3 Likes
For newcomers it would be learning a new game.
And also, a few skins? No, it’s several new sets of skins, of which each has, like 20+ skins. Militia line alone would have five new skins per set.
As far as AoE4 goes, it has far fewer civs and a lot more variants that reuse assets, to my understanding.
Player colors do that above anything else. Skins don’t tell what you’re fighting unless you’re familiar with them. And that’s the problem, having common skins tells you more easily what you’re fighting.
Aka, hero units most of the time, that use the UU models or their own unique models. Not generic units.
2 Likes