New italians after the update and further ideas for the next ones

[Sylux1000]

@TougherTrack508

I mean, if the GC TT needs to be reduced, I see no reaons to couple that to a tech or to a TT reduction of all archers, or any of the other strange things which have been proposed. A simple TT reduction is much simpler than any of that, and I’d argue simple is preferable.

The point is that Italians are in huge needs of:

• a reduction of GC TT
• some archer buff to have a reason to exist on land.

An option would be to address both points separately (like -4s TT and the armor bonus for archer-line and skyrms).

Another option would be to give a TT civ bonus like 30/35/40% along the ages to fix both issues in one shot.

The first option is definitely stronger, but the second one is more elegant imo

[DoctBaghi]

@TougherTrack508

I mean, if the GC TT needs to be reduced, I see no reaons to couple that to a tech or to a TT reduction of all archers, or any of the other strange things which have been proposed. A simple TT reduction is much simpler than any of that, and I’d argue simple is preferable.

Well, both the UT are already used, but yet, putting it as a bonus doesn’t seem too strong, and it would be less changes to do, other than be easier to understand.

@TougherTrack508

I tried condos, but they didn’t really work. I don’t think Hussar would have done much better, and BBC only work if you can protect them.
If condos had 1-2 more PA they might be able to do the job.
I think archer civs need to hit Viets before they can get to multiple castle Rattan production, but in my perception Britains can do so better than Italians.

Maybe cavaliers too, but again, viets simply are strong vs archers civs.

@Sylux1000

Another option would be to give a TT civ bonus like 30/35/40% along the ages to fix both issues in one shot.

This could be a weaker version, but in my opinion, 40% in feudal is balanced.

@Sylux1000

An option would be to address both points separately (like -4s TT and the armor bonus for archer-line and skyrms).

@Sylux1000

The first option is definitely stronger, but the second one is more elegant imo

The free armor is useful as well, but te faster TT is more stronger in my opinion.

[DoctBaghi]

Still between the 3 options:

• free archer armor techs + less TT for GC

• +1PA for arbs and SKIRMS (stackable with pavise) + less TT for GC

• 40% less TT for foot archers (xbows, skirms, GC)

I hope that the devs at least implement one of those.

[Sylux1000]

It is clear from the topic on Italian FC the value of the age up discount… very limited. Interesting, it is all the civ has up to imp

[DoctBaghi]

You mean this:

Is there a special fast castle build order for Italians?

Italians have the bonus of a 15% price reduction for progressing to the next age. Are there any build orders that take advantage of this?

Well, with the 40% faster TT for foot archers, their archers rush could become really good.
You could put more vills on wood/gold thanks to the more food saved and have your archers sooner.

It could work well with the free armor too, but it would be weaker.

The +1PA doesn’t really do much for that…