Yes, at most the Mississippians would be like the Aztecs but with their unique units and architecture set… and the Iroquois/Haudenosaunee like those from AoE 3 but without horses or gunpowder (meaning their unique units would be the Tomahawk and the Aenna archer and that’s it)…
Yes, this wouldn’t be happening if they hadn’t abandoned AoE 3… they keep forcing civilizations and mechanics into contexts that would be more acceptable in AoE 3… AoE 2 is a medieval game with 1200 years of history (400-1600), is it so hard for them to stay within that timeframe and context? Ultimately, if they want a nod to AoE 2, they could port the campaigns of Pachacuti (Incas), Moctezuma (Aztecs), and Almeida (Portuguese) into AoE 3…
The main issue with the Americas, by far, is the lack of records outside of the 3 existing civs for the precolombian period. So it limits the usable period to the 1500s for most new civs.
What we know about the Cahokia is roughly equivalent to what we know about the Indus Valley civ from the Bronze Age.
One of the members of the AoE2 discord server is Native (iirc Ojibwe or adjacent area) and had some pre-Columbian campaign ideas, I’ll ask him/her if they could post them here
I never thought North America Civs were possible, but after the introduction of the Tupi, it opens the door for Haudenosaunee.
I don’t think this makes much historical sense, having homes be food storage. We already have the Inca that have houses and settlements give 10 pop space. between them and the Huns there is lots of room. it could provide 15 or 30 pop space!
Tomahawk thrower sounds very similar to throwing axeman. I want a UU that is a spearman that can keep up with scouts in the feudal age. another UU could be trash ram as people have suggested in other threads.
I always thought if any civ was going to get the elusive villagers can fire arrows tech, it would be north american civs. They are going to have a pretty weak Imperial age otherwise.
I thought about adding them but they would probably feel to modern while not being as unique as the plains tribes.
There are some other potential civs if we look at the western parts of the continent like Pueblo. Haida would also be an option as a naval civilisation but they might not be well known enough.
I think Tomahawks are too iconic for them to not have them. I made them more of a dedicated anti Infantry unit so more like a Hand Cannon or Slinger replacement then a Throwing Axeman. Franks do have Hand Cannons for the actual anti Infantry role.
The Trash Ram could be a 2nd UU or regional unit though.
Maybe they could have a Spearman UU that replaces the Eagle Warrior for them since it doesn’t make too much sense historically. It would then be kinda like the Fire Lance or Temple Guard with a bonus against Cavalry and also with Shock Infantry armour.
That actually sounds like a cool idea. It would work well for a civ with now walls as a way to defend against raids.
Yup! I do want to see Arido/Oasisamerica represented, but not really in the same DLC as the Mississippi rivershed and Eastern Woodlands. A shared Mound Builder architecture makes sense in the east, but trying to combine it with adobe Pueblo houses would be too much.
Pacific Northwest civs like Haida, Tlingits, Salish etc. would be great to have as they are very cool, but most of we know of their history sadly sits well into the AoE3 timeline. Though I might be mistaken as I don’t know enough about them. I guess as much as I dislike unholy blends like Khitanguts, most that could be done about them in AoE2 would be to combine the entire Pacific Northwest together. But then they probably wouldn’t get their unique architecture as making a set for a single civ might not be deemed profitable
There is things that I like and other that I dislike in this topic so I will details.
Regional Units
Eagle Scout Line : I dislike this because it’s not a north american regional unit but a central american one. Now that the eagle was removed for the Inca I think it’s not time to add these regional unit for North America. Another regional unit must fit this role.
Mantlet Line : very good I like this, but with two attack animations because throwing torch against unit seem very inaccurate. Maybe two attack animation : tomahawk against unit and torch against building. And I say attack animation not attack mode like the Louchuan (the attack will have the same range and deal the same damage, only the attack animation change, it’s just a cosmetic change.)
Tomahawk thrower : I like this ! Too iconic to not have them.
Iroquois Warrior : this already existing unit must be reskinned, removing his iron axe and giving him stone axe. can became a tomahawk thrower with new ranged animation. Maybe he can also be armed with a club.
Regional Buildings
Wooden fort : Not very useful because all the castle have already their skin, and the developers already must do an unique castle model for the all technology tree mode.
Longhouse : I dislike the 3x3 tiles. In another topic I propose a viking longhouse with 2x3 tile and maybe 2x4 tiles. We can choose the orientation of the building with the wheel of the mouse like the gates.
I dislike this name because very few people know that is the Sioux, first I checked on Wikipedia to know what people was this.
I don’t want to view an horse civilization in North America in AoE2 because this was the time frame of AoE3. There was horse in North America since the second part of the 16th century but very few, not enough to make a trainable unit, maybe just an editor unit.
Also I dislike the concept of lacking cavalry armor upgrade because in fact some north america native make horse armor. Comanche made horse armor (see here), made from leather in scale with glued sand. Problem Comanche didn’t exist before the 17th century.
The type of units that I want
Tomahawk thrower
Mantlet
War canoe
Regional unit for north american civilization, cheaper unit, can travel but no attack on land. Attack on water with a bow. Can be trained in a dock and in a barracks.
There was an unit like this in in the game America (2001). In this game on land two men carry the boat and on water on one man row the canoe and the other shoot with a bow.
A mobile gathering point for food and maybe wood. Do not replace any of the other drop off point.
Portable ram
The same as the AoE3 Haudenosaunee one. Regional unit can not be garrisoned but cheaper and faster than a normal ram.
Regional scout who hunt
Fast melee infantry unit. Can hunt animal, fishing and gather berry (cannot go in farm). Have a ranged attack when he hunt, ranged attack also apply against predator. Can gather gold from fox like animal (not oyster)
As a civilization bonus he can also gather without drop off point for food (like fox)
Architectural set
A Mississippian one. But if the Pueblos are added they need a publoan one because having mississipan buildings in desert don’t look good.
Some scenario editor object can be added : wigwam.
Animals
Bald eagle, beaver, american bison, cougar, elk, moose, pronghorn
Beaver hut as decoration
For the alligator, the caiman can just be renamed for a scenario because this two animals very look like.
Tree
Swamp cypress : Those trees can be placed on water like the Mangrove tree.
The one possible NorthAm cavalry civ would be the Chichimecas (albeit they are only NorthAm the way Aztecs and Maya also are NorthAm, their architecture set would be Meso)
Personally I wouldn’t mind Cavalry Civs among the North American ones, just for the sake of variety and because this game even in modern times do things more for gameplay than historical accuracy. Cough Armenians and Khitans being infantry Civs Cough
But I’d rather have more interesting units, especially since only the Sioux and Commache would have horses if we go by this line of thought, maybe the Shoshone too if there’s any room for them. My bias for Cavalry Civs may also be speaking here.
Otherwise I’d like to see this attempted at least, though making any campaigns for these civs will be tough.
The Iroquois as in the Haudenosaunee Confederacy? Probably not, albeit they definitely had contact with various Algonquian tribes.
Iroquoians as in speakers of Iroquoian languages? They definitely did interact with the Mississippian sphere of influence, like in case of the Cherokee or the Monongahela culture.
So does anyone ever consider the Skraeling? A civ that interacted with someone other than Spanish first and long before said Spaniards and actually BEAT said Europeans?
Perhaps their UU could be a unit that when killed stats at one hp and goes ballistic doing a few rounds of attacks until it keels over and dies for real no saving it
The Mississippian people did have Eagle themed warriors so it’s not that unfitting. The Elite Eagle Warrior looks very Aztec though.
But it could simply be a reskin with the same stats. Champions and Crossbows definitely look more out of place.
I think they can stay a melee unit because else they would be just a Tomahawk copy. Having a melee unit could be nice for scenarios that want to mix multiple units.
All technology mode really shouldn’t impact civ design. It’s a stupid relict from a long gone time.
I decided against a none square building because I think it could confuse people. But theoretically it would be better.
They renamed the Sioux in AoE3DE for a reason. We live in different times now and it’s not really possible to use those kinda names anymore nowadays. I think the people that a civ is representing should have a say in how their civ is being named.
tbh. this unit should be available to a lot more civs. Many civilisations in AoE2 never really build heavy siege equipment.
Didn’t they interact with the Mississippians?
This argument is stupid anyway. It basically blacklists entire continents from the game. We have to add civs for future civs to have someone they interacted with, right?
They fought Norse settlers and later on moved to occupy a significant portion of former Mississippian territories, including Cahokia itself (which we know by its Algonquian name)
