The title say it all, after watching both videos from SOTL and Age of Noob. The tech’s effect seems to be too weak while being ridiculously expensive for what it does. The pay off simple is not worth it.
My proposal is to double the gold collection rate (or anything that is higher than at the moment), and cut the cost to the same level as Vineyards.
Let’s just wait until after the first few thousand ranked games and maybe a big tournament or so. You may be right, but we all have so little data to go on.
At least devs are willing to change this UT. If it is too underwhelming, it will be buff.
Agree with Pan, let’s wait and see.
I see the tech as really good on black forest. So many trees, a little tickle of gold is very nice there.
But bad somehow. Just make it cheaper.
Seems like it, especially when compared to the Poles stone / gold bonus lol
with vietnamese pickrate, we could be waiting for years before gathering 1000 ranked games that reach imperial age. I would wait only up to 100 games.
I think in this case there’s no testing needed (and I’m usually very positive - I’d also say to people who are throwing around balance suggestions for the new civs they should wait and test first). It’s pretty simple math.
You need like 20-30 minutes in a realistic scenario for the tech to just pay for itself and after that you have 1-2 relics more. That’s just terrible, especially because wood will run out at some point, which isn’t that unrealistic so far into the game.
On Arabia this upgrade is just trash and even worse than the old version (which is not easy to acomplish). For large scale teamgames on maps with a lot of wood it is still bad, but situationally not terrible to get - you still pay a lot to get very little, but at least it will be decent, if you’re not under pressure and expect the game to last at least 1 more hour (and I think I’m actually not exaggerating here, this is the area where you can rightfully use the words “worth it” for this upgrade).
So, yes this for sure needs some kind of buff - making it cheaper or better would be best (and not just a bit, but more like 50% cheaper or (not and!!!) 100% more effective). Making it avaliable earlier is probably too small of a buff.
Making it a lot cheaper would probably be the best fix, because otherwise Vietnamese lategame might become too strong in the long run. So I think the tech being cheap and a small benefit is a lot healthier than it being expensive and a huge benefit.
As of yet, I am wishing this change had never occurred. That was fair seed money for trade carts. Now if they had kept the old resource cost types (You could raise the cost) and had given it both effects…
I can’t really complain, it’s something I’ve suggested on this very forum a while ago (though in my proposal it was changed into a Castle Age UT just like Burgundian Vineyards and Chatras was buffed to be worthy of being an Imperial Age UT)
I really wonder why people complain already about it while nobody ever complained about burgundian vineyards which btw even gives less gold per min. The new UT for vietnamese is obviously a late game tech that will come into play for closed maps or post imp situations on open maps. Since in these situations you usually have about 40 lumberjacks as vietnamese it’s rather close to having 2 more relics. That’s a really good bonus and there is literally no reason to complain about if you use it in the right scenario. Just as burgundian vineyards is a good one that although you can research in castle age that basically never happens.
Maybe because everyone was looking at other parts of burgundian design like the other UT or their eco bonuses. Also, vineyards was changed from converting food into gold to the currenr version. Few people liked the previous version because it was tricky to use
Paper money change is just the opposite. It has won some usefulness (longer term effect) but lost an efeect that was easy to grasp (500 gold and thats all). Also, burgundians vineyard had been present in the game for months, while paper money has been with us since Rise of Rajas DLC. Thus, it is undertandable that some people had found some utility in the tech and now they complain because of the apparently lackluster new tech.
Ps: i like the new version
There is also the fact Burgundians give you gold savings on cav upgrades, their tech costs less so that it’s paid back earlier, they don’t have that good trash units so you’re more likely to need it… Meanwhile the Vietnamese have imp skirms and aren’t really seen as a gold dependant civ. Like it might not be bad but it’s hard to look good with such a start.
Even with imp skirm, you need some siege in trashwars. Or champions. That is what the gold from this techs will be used for
I like your idea of changing the price instead of the effect. I’d also want to see paper money and chatras switch places. Just like with Burmese, it seems silly having unique techs for elephants in castle age. Vineyards is 400 food 300 gold and available in castle age. If you’re booming you’ll have way more farmers than lumber jacks so vineyards is more valuable. Paper money should be closer to 400 wood 200 gold and available in castle age but keep the gather rate the same.