New UUs are really good

a lot of people seemed really disappointed with the new UUs in the initial videos, and now we’re finally seeing how effective the various UU actually are(ratha is just nuts), even with poor micro. even if some of the civs might not have a great eco (according to likely the same people who said the UUs were bad) they all definitely seem to have great UUs.

so at the very worst, the civs will be as good as spanish and their conqs. that being said we know their ecos arent actually that bad. so the civs all in all are turning out to be really good

with the dichotomy between what people thought the UUs would be like(and their ecos), compared to how good they all turned out, i think we can safely infer that both EA and siege eles will not be as remotely as bad as many people think (probably the same people who thought the UUs were bad, and the ecos were bad)

TLDR: the devs arent idiots, the civs are definitely not lacklustre


I can’t remember anybody claiming shakram throwers would suck…
But don’t forget they are countered by seige pretty hard, so it’s not that they would be uncounterble. They are also more a follow-up unit to your camels if the opponent goes heavily into infantry.


atm i’m worried ratha would be OP, they seems totally busted being basically a Cavalier - CA mash-up that can make a full army of himself by splitting some units in the two different modes, without even being that expensive at 60W/60G


It’s probably to make up for the skirmisher weakness. If they have both cavalry archer and archer armour classes they will take +6 from skirmishers. Since they have 1 base pierce armour, once FU they should take 8 damage from skirms. Meanwhile Malay cavalier take only 4.

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the cavalier also costs more gold and has not the same flexibility. also the elitè upgrade is really cheaper and does not cost a single gold…

you could shred skirmisher in melee version, yeah you get bonus damage of course, but it’s not like every civs have FU skirmisher. of course we have to wait and practice with them to actually know how good they are so atm i’m just a little worried they might be too strong but i’m not gonna scream OP yet of course. i hope real game scenarios prove them to be just awesome to use

So we went from underpowered weak to nerf please?

Obviously the Bengalis player will always have dozens of castles available at any time, in convenient spots of the map.
Also regular Ratha is more like Knight, not Cavalier, and needs a ton of upgrades to reach the FU status (archer armor, melee atk, archer atk, parthian tactics, ballistics, UT for attack speed, husbandry, bloodlines, super expensive elite upgrade, chemistry)

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6 damage. They have 1+6 PA once FU. Anyway a melee cavalry countered by skirms is far from OP…

Oh so they get the effect of parthian tactics? I kinda half expected them to not benefit from it like arambai

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Same, but they do. They end up with 6/7 armor, like Tatars’ HCAs.
So I made the calculations, but I might have missed something.

FU Ratha cost: 3345f 2095g 1475w => I think the most expensive FU unit ever
FU Cavalier cost: 1845f 1095g

Actually, Spirit of the Law indicates different cost in his video, so I tend to trust more him than me.
He writes 4095f 2445g 1475w, so I must have missed something.

EDIT: no, he erroneously included cavalry armor upgrades he took to demonstrate that they don’t work, the total is the perfect difference between my calculations and his (750f 350g)

So FU Ratha costs 3345f 2095g 1475w rather impressive imho.
If anyone commits to that, I believe the unit should be at least viable, I dare to say even good.

Bring this guy his medal already.

I actually think the Ratha will have one powerspike in early castle where it can be used on open maps in low numbers to herass the opponent with ranged attacks from different angles.
I think it’s actually weaker than standard CA in high numbers cause of the lower Damage and speed.

Yes it’s still a CA unit with all what that means, but not in the same league as mangudai or camel archer.

And yes I think it will be played mostly as a CA unit, even if the melee variant looks stronger on paper. Ofc the utility to break walls is nice and will be used, but most of the time it will be in the ranged mode.

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Well, CA UUs are not exactly easy to mass, nor to upgrade, and this one in particular costs even more than War Elephant and Cataphract to fully upgrade.
I really hope it will be good enough, because the cost is MASSIVE.

they could give the unit +2 hp for every upgrade on it, then it’s maybe worth it :smiley:

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I’m fine to test it as it is, but seeing calls for nerfs at this stage makes me empty inside, sorry I don’t know an appropriate figure of speech.

you usually dont have a castle in early castle age

You can go on stone when making that transition. The castle itself oftne isn’t the problem but the need to have food eco behind it aswell. As the rather costs no food, only a castle, it’s absolutely viable.

Well that’s normal. I think the UUs are fine for the most part. I actually think that we will see most likely more buffs than nerfs to them. The only ones I can think of a nerf is the Ghulam and possibly the Shakram. Not because I think they are OP, but because I don’t have seen enough from them yet to make the call.
Devs seem to be a bit more on the cautious side with this dlc. (Except the Hindustanis which are imo stronger than current indians)

that’s simply not true. elitè upgrade does not cost gold. and all that upgrades are requires by any CA tipe unit as well. only upgrade they need in additon are melee attack ones, which you would likely research anyway for other units. and the elitè ratha is basically the Cavalier in melee with 5 more HP and faster attack speed with UT

again, too son to call for OP obviously, but it’s a unit that with its versatility could be problematic

Disagree. They have low attack, lack TR and have low speed compared to other CA units. I think early castle until Paik is researched, it is rather their weakest state.

True. Mangudai, Camel Archer and Conquistador are on a higher level than them. They are probably on par with Arambai and Kipchak.

Other than Raths, Chakram Throwers and Ghulams, the new units suck.