I’ve already been doing some of that. Costs a lot of apm but saves the villager seconds and wood. It has to be done manually, but it’s decent if there’s a pause in the action
“Hybrid Walls” perhaps as a proper name? We’ve got to call it something and “Hybrid Walling” works too
Looks like the change kinda backfired.
I wonder if they will change it again.
How does that work? Can you send a picture?
its not really backfiring “yet”
its still more investment and apm then the old system
unless someone found a glitch that gives more HP then the original
Now you have to remove every second pillar do maximum efficiency which is more work to do then the old system where you had to remove all of them.
Maybe they will adjust it in a way that it needs 2 nearby pillars to get full HP this would prevent that.
I’d argue that’s unnecessary, and would create issues when walling to the edge of the map/cliffs where sometimes the pillars won’t go.
As is, it’s a lot more APM intensive so I see no issue with it. If you want to invest the APM then you get a benefit. It’s arguably better now since it rewards skill more.
I personally had no issue with pillar-less walls for the same reason though. But that same argument is only strengthened by the new state of things.
TLDR “More skill equals a competitive edge which is good imo.”
Yeah, this change forces people to learn a new muscle memory while there is still a slight increase in base walling costs and build speed while giving options of less hp pillarless. More skill, more options, more cost. It wont solve base sitting, but at least map painters have to actually work hard with their hands while normal people make units. I’d say it will take time to evaluate the long term effects or efficiency anyways
The biggest problem now is pillar cost the same wood as walls. So there is still incentive to delete pillars.
Pillar and wall both cost 6 wood. They combine for 12 wood. It should be pillar cost 1 wood and wall costs 11 wood. There is no reason to delete anymore
This isn’t an option, because the wall building you see in the build menu is actually the pillar. So if the pillar cost 1w and a segment 10w it’d show up as 1w, tricking players into thinking that all walls cost 1w.
Now that the wall update has addressed pillars as a vulnerability in walls, the main problem left is their time & wood cost vs. coverage.
If you want to reduce the incentive to delete pillars (Wall Connector), then they should cost wood & time proportional to the parts’ coverage.
Being proportional also means you can explain the displayed pillar cost as a “unit cost”, which shouldn’t be unintuitive to players.
EDIT:
To be replaced by more accurate test results.
Currently we have the wall connector (pillar) with 1x1 size, the long wall 1x5 (which is acually size 5 and that is why you can get pillarless walls, and a short wall which is 1x2 (with actual size of 2)… If we really want to remove pillarless walls reducing the actual size of the walls of 1 should leave enough holes in the walls that pillars are structurally needed to stop the enemy instead of acting like a colander
1). the walling behavior in BANG engine is extremely hardcoded, and we don’t know if this is easy to implement even with the source code; 2) this firmly goes the category of “changes too big to make now”.
Forgot to mention:
- Wall 1x5 must be able to upgrade into gates. If we reduce its size, it will have to change size when upgraded, or the gate must be changed too.
- As always, any sweeping change like that may break all existing scenarios and campaigns, or require additional trouble like making the “new wall” wholly new protounits. That’s one of the basic reasons they won’t happen, even if technically doable.
See my post above on proportional costs.
My argument is that if wall piece costs are wholly proportional to their sizes, it should be intuitive enough for players to understand that the displayed cost is for per tile.
E.g. they can make a single pillar and see it costs 2w; then make a longer wall deleting the pillars, and see Wall 1x5 costs 10w. It should be easy to grasp that they are proportional.
Of course, this may make a wall of pure pillars a tempting idea (given the 1s vs 7s build time, that seems like more HP and less build time for every 2w), but that should be impractical enough in the UI to not be a problem?
Fundamentally, this is an issue of cost vs. gains:
Players will stop deleting pillars if they feel the saved wood & vill time are not significant enough for the effort.
If you really want to eliminate the problem of incomplete walls you just have to eliminate the damage spread, the part of the wall you attack is the only part you will damage.
Additionally, damaged walls extend the damage even to walls that have full health. I recommend watching this video where the topic is explained. (This video is in Spanish, but I think it is well understood)
Wall damage spread originated in AOM. It’s been a staple of BANG engine games.
I don’t know what was the rationale behind it in AOM, but my feeling is it made more sense in AOM’s context, where armies are much smaller.
Dios, que mecánica tan aberrante.
This mechanic makes no sense in a game where there is artillery, and it also discourages building walls with pillars too much. I hope they remove this mechanic from both AOE3:DE and AOM:R.
I maintain that the entire wall construction system needs a re-work, but at the very least I hope they remove this huge defect.
It makes sense in a game where walls are that cheap.
If you want to know the difference try AKs or Siege elephants vs Mortars
Pillars are being built too fast Tilanus