A slight buff for castle age Scout Cavs, but a nerf to imperial age hussars and camels… Is this really what the Indians needed?
1 Like
you can thank the team game people for that.
6 Likes
Imho having a useless civ in 1v1s is not as bad as having a broken one in teamgames, so the change improves the game overall. Still, would be nice if a future patch adresses indians weakness in 1v1s.
7 Likes
Zealotry Camels will take over now.
I dont think so. They are way weaker than the old imp camels. Prolly it will just be full on pala/arb and some UUs. But lets see.
5 Likes
Giving Indians arbalest won’t hurt TG and will help them have an option in imp now their camels lose 1/1
6 Likes
Its an incredibly boring change but i agree…
Agree
Agree. But a kick in the leg is also better than getting shot by a gun. Does it mean the kick is a good thing? No. No it doesn’t.
There’s a ton of things they could’ve done instead of this massive nerf. They could just remove the civ from play completely that would also be better than a broken civ right?
2 Likes
Weird comparison. Id rather say its bitter medicin. And lets be honest, it doesnt really hurt 1v1 - how many pick indians there anyway?
But yeah, lets hope for a future 1v1 buff.
1 Like
Yeah that’s true! I guess it’s only when going random or specifically just wanting to use India for the fun of it
Yeah hopefully it’s in the next patch. Im sure they’ll eventually buff india. Just a matter of when.
Hahaha that’s true…
1 Like
From SotL’s video… It seems that Indian’s good win rate in team games is midgame, not even late game. So a slight light cav castle age buff + cav nerf for late game makes even less sense. Sigh.
1 Like
MAN do you realize that naked imp camel is still melting paladins like butter?
They didn’t get nerfed at all in fact they got buffed for castle age and insanely strong in tgs now for castle age and still their imp camel will melt ur city and any mounted unit, they only got nerf in the hussar line with the -1 MA, but they can finish the games before you suffer about that.
Indians are not getting arbalest, it was broken before and it will be worse in DE.
MAN do you realize that naked archers will melt Imperial Camels like butter?
2 Likes
They don’t, 160 HP 4 armor, faster and higher attack.
1 Like
arbs do 10 damage an attack, so they do 6 damage a shot to imp camels, meaning imp camels take 27 shots to kill. to put that in perspective, hussars take 24 shots to kill. Turkish and Tatar Hussars take 32 shots to kill cavalier take 35 shots to kill.
3 Likes
and yet hussars kills arbs with less attack and hp so move on.
The extra strength the Indians had on their camels was partially there to offset them not having access to the knight line at all.
After the patch:
FU Imperial Camels have 160 hp, 9 damage (+18 against cav +4 from blacksmith), 0+2/0+4 armor. They die in 27 hits to an arbalester, in 10 hits to a paladin, and they kill paladins in 7 hits.
FU Saracen Heavy Camels have 170 hp, 7 damage (+18 against cav), 0+3/0+4 armor. They die in 29 hits to arbalesters, and in 12 hits to paladins, and they take down paladins in 8 hits.
This alone would make Saracen Heavy Camels better, but on top of that, they are also cheaper to upgrade (Zealotry costs way less than Imperial Camel upgrade, and it takes less than a minute to research, AND you can research it alongside the Heavy Camel upgrade, while Imperial Camel not only you need to wait for the Heavy Camel upgrade to be finished, but you also need to wait the ~2 minutes upgrade time.)
So all this would be bad enough by itself, but:
Saracens have access to knights. AND Arbalesters. Indians used to be the “oh yeah, they have the best camels, even if it’s niche”. Now they’re… well. Yeah.
5 Likes
Now, just to clarify: I’m NOT asking for arbalests for the indians. I think that civ identity is very important, and I think Indians should have THE supreme camel rider. For example: they could have given elite skirms to the Turks, but that would have taken away from the civ identity, instead they gave 1 pierce armor to the light cav line, and I think that fit great with the Turks identity since they already have FU Hussar AND free light cav and hussar upgrades, so they have to try to use these to sort of replace skirms.
Considering SotL’s presented statistics and the numbers I showed when compared to the Saracens… I have no idea why they nerfed Indians like this. Makes no sense from whatever point of view you look at. Then again, I’m afraid that by getting attention to this instead of buffing the Indians they’re gonna nerf all the other camel civs instead or something.
Oh, come on, man. This is the ONE job of camel riders, they’re supposed to hard counter all cavalry. They’re generally a bad idea for almost every other situation. This is one of the reasons why Indians have a hard time, afaik, against aztecs/mayans/incas, those 3 have great tools EXCEPT for any sort of cavalry.
2 Likes
spirit of the law only looks at ladder winrates and not pro use. apparently many team game fans felt camels were oppressive as heck and campaigned to get them nerfed. Viper even said it was the most broken unit in team games. even more so then khmer elephants.
case in point SotL didn’t understand why Aztecs and Khmer got nerfed, despite those two being some of the most widely used civs in tournaments. in the recent KotD3 Aztecs were involved in 99% of all civ drafts, and in pretty much every tournament Aztecs are almost always picked or banned.
Only when you add archer/arbalester behind Paladin which more practical scene I guess. If it is only Paladin vs Camel, Indians is still the best.
After testing 10v10 -
Indians camel win with 49% HP with 8 survivors
Saracens camel win with 46.4~ % HP with 6.8 survivors
A very slight margin but it is supposed to be bigger in bigger scale battle like 30v30 or 40v40.
All are true but Imp camel TT is 10% less which helps you spamming.
In team game the Indians were very powerful, they could decrease the value of the upgrade to Imperial Camel Rider. 1200F, 600G to 800F 600G