Guess the new trend in DlC is making uu’s completely different from original units.dont be surprised if the next uu uses the beta shield wall concepts.
Let’s take a look at some of the unique infantry price tags:
- Obuch costs 55F 20G (75 total res).
- Teutonic Knight costs 85F and 40G (125 total res) - 66.7% more than Obuch and almost as expensive as a knight (135 total res).
- Searjeant costs 60F 35G (95 total res) - 26.7% more than Obuch
- Samurai costs 60F 30G (90 total res) - 20% more than Obuch
- Berserk costs 65F 25G (90 total res) - 20% more than Obuch
The great stats of the Obuch and the special ability to break armor combined with the extremely cheap cost makes it the best infantry in the game in my opinion. Obuch has same HP as TK in Castle Age - a unit that costs so much more and is slower on top. It also has the same Armor stats as the Elite Obuch.
Since the implementation of supplies the unique infantry is often hold back compared to just going for the cheap cost effective militia line.
Either they should start making unique infantry cheaper where it wouldn’t make them overpowered or the Obuch needs a price increase or stats reduction in my opinion.
I would prefer making other infantry more viable by bringing down the price tag where it makes sense.
The Obuch shows that infantry can be viable if stats and price are just good enough.
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on the other hand they still can’t be too good, because they have no trash counter as is.
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Absolutely. There has to be a good balancing but I think many unique infantry units could be made cheaper to see more play.
Still I think in this case it needs a specific role. The obuch has it’s role as it synergizes well with ranged support, but maybe the sheer damage output of the obuch is currently a bit too high, so this could be tuned down by 1.
And the other infantry like TK:
TK could lose 1 PA for a 25 % cost reduction - better in his role but even harder countered by range.
Samurai could lose 2 atk for 20 % cost reduction - better to spam against UUs.
Serjeant could get +2 melee armor - just holding better as frontline.
non-elite Berserk could get +3 Atk - elite berserks are fine.
I wouldn’t want to have a strong inf unit you just can spam endlessly without any support, that would be goth 2.0.
Also, the Obuch isn’t so much a damage dealer itself, it’s still what Infantry is to this day, at it’s core, a support unit.
I think with the sheer mass you can afford it is a good damage dealer - especially since with every hit it reduces the armor down to a minimum of zero and with the cheap price you can probably have more units on the field which breaks armor even faster since sometimes 2 units attack one.
eh, against most units you’re only going to get an armor reduction of 3 or 4 tops, and by the time you get that far you’re 4-6 seconds into the fight already. it still requires a castle to make. I don’t see pure Obuch being a good idea. they absolutely need a real damage dealer with them.
I think the 2 main problems of infantry units are :
- lack of tankiness
- lack of speed.
In the past, UU were given a higher speed. Even if not Woad level, all other UU (bar TK) had at least 1 or 1.05 speed.
Now they go with a “more tanky” approach with Sergeants and Obuchs. They are the first infantry UU to have only 0.9 speed (well since all others were buffed).
Buffing one of the two is enough, if it’s done in addition to “something special”. And then the UU shall not not be much more expensive than Champs.
I think the reason why people love zerks is because Viks champs are underrated. This and because 0.15 extra speed is too important to ignore.
Leaving ranged infantry apart, I still think that the best infantry UU are Kamayuks. Their ability to melt about everything including elephant in melee is just too good to ignore.
you can’t really give them both, otherwise it makes the unit too hard to counter.
I agree with you. Speed is so important for infantry. And I forgot the Kamayuk - it is true that it definitely is one of the very best infantry units with 1 Range and also relatively good armor stats.
I mean… that would make the unit comically bad. Even E. Skirm would do 2 damage to Castle Age TK. While that does not sound like a big deal, remember how utterly slow the unit is.
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You combine it with siege anyways, so Skirm isn’t the prob.
Skirm was just an example. It’s already easily countered by archers, losing 1 PA means this unit just absioutely melts. Such a slow unit with 1 PA basically falls into the never make category.
I think it has it’s situational usage. Many civs don’t get FU arbs or HCA with full attack.
I personally don’t think ETK is a bad unit, just very situational. And btw cause of it’s design non-elite TK are just… weird, they make no sense.
No, just even missing 1 PA is huge. The next time you face Bohemians, try knights. You will see that even the +2 knights do very poorly to xbow with chemistry.
Now picture that with a significantly slower unit. It’s just laughably bad to ever make it.
TK get slaughtered by FU archers or cav archers anyways…
Exactly. Losing out on one more PA just pushes the unit into full obsolescence.
With 25 % cost reduction? Are you sure? It just makes it excel even better in the situations they are already very strong in and a bit more expendable. I think it would make them more viable.
Yes. I am sure. I mean at that point the only time you’d ever see this unit is when a castle is being rammed and nothing else is close by…