Obuch seriously needs a nerf

For only 55 food and 20 gold, the Obuch is overwhelming. He has a lot of HP and very good armor, and the armor destroying hits are just a bonus.

Unit like the Serjeant for example, costs 60 food and 35 gold! With that price increase, he gets no special damaging bonus, and can just barely defeat the obuch in a one on one (groups are another story because they lose). Oh, but Serjeants can build a Donjon, so?

Obuch can beat almost anything with enough numbers, unless it’s a cav archer army, but even then, they have 2 pierce armor, which is a decent start for tanky infantry.

Their price should be increased, or their stats nerfed tbh. They only cost ten more food than supplies Champions, but beat them with such ease.

P.S. Genoese Crossbowman should get a range increase in Imp, why have anti cav damage when you can’t even reach them on time? Has to be the worst elite upgrade in the game.

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I will just go for the direction to give them +2 attack for elite, so they are way bettet than arbalest vs infantry but still having the range deficit.

How to nerf Obuch 6 attack. Elite 8 Attack. Melee armor 1. Pierce armor 1.

Or just nerf pierce armor 1, and give 2 less attack.

They already have very high HP. They should not be able to make only 1 unit and win, they could be there to weaken the armor of the enemy and use other units to kill them.

Why make them weaker in melee armor?, is the area where Obuch is supposed to be good at to take advantage of such hability.
Less attack? No is already low.
Only take away one PA and then they are fine.

That will at least give a hard counter with archers. So, perhaps, it seem fair.

Obuch seem very strong. It’s a nearly make only that unit and win unit. Weakening them in melee a little might not be too bad, since it may make the Poles player make other units other than Obuch.

I’m fine with Obuch being dominant in melee fights because is the area where is designed to be great at, but the problem goes that they are also good at taking arrow damage and raiding (same resistance as hussar btw), that’s just too much for 55f 20g, but if one PA is removed then the price is fair.
Do you remember Leitis when had 2 base PA and how that needed to be lowered to 1?
Or Ghulam when had better HP so they also were good at melee fights, or Chakram when had better attack and was killing cavalry too?

That’s also a pretty good alternative and would make them feel more unique than a regular archer.

I think that lessening their pierce armor by one would be too small of a nerf given the price. Perhaps if the HP got slightly decreased as well? Like 70 and 85 elite. Or 75 and 90 elite.

Lowering HP is against to what Obuch does in battle, if lasted less in melee battle then the armor breaking attack won’t be good in melee and then why go Obuch?

Then, I have an even better idea. Why not just increase the cost of the unit? He is way too cheap. +10 gold at the very least would be fair IMO.

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It’s Obuch for pushing things down, and occasional cav for raids. Too cheap and too easy. Gold cost should be increased at the very least.

I agree on gold cost increase such that champion can deal with obuch cost-effectively in late game. Other infantry UU (except TK, aztec UU) cannot kill champion cost-effectively while serving a niche role. Obuch is way more useful and should burn gold faster.

Perhaps they need big negative archer armor for balance. Same range as arbalest is much easier to mix two and micro.

yeah both serjeants and genoese sucks a bit for different reasons. serjeants is just cost inefficient, too expensive. geno is a one trick pony and has one of the worst imp upgrade in the game. having one less range he could very well be made the Rattan equivalent for melee armor and start with like 2 in castle and go to 4 in imperial age, to at least have a niche in melee having low range, but still be countered by skirms and onager better than arbs

no they shouldn’t because they shouldn’t be a full alternative to Arbalest. Right now Genoese Crossbowmen works fine, the Elite iirc gives only +2 bonus damage and some minor HP boost, but I wouldn’t be so eager in buffing it because we don’t know hot +2 bonus damage affects mass battles. For all we know, in mass battles Elite Genoese Crossbowmen is significantly stronger than the regular version, so tests would be required. In any case, it’s good that the unit has 4 range.

I agree with this though.

I already have a topic about this very thing, so for the sake of avoiding redundancy, it’s probably best to move the discussion there.

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Make more Obuch nerf topics. We got many over the years

I agree good sir.
Please continue the discussion in that post!

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