IMO the 2ohp/m regeneration is too low to make any meaningful impact. It should be buffed to 40hp/m.
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I really think both Dravidians and Bengalis are just really poorly designed.
The thing is yeah it’s kinda appearant what they SHOULD be played. But a) Is it kinda silly and b) it doesn’t even work out.
I don’t know why the devs make so narrowly designed civs. I think it’s in their best interest to add civs with different tools so people can figure them out. It adds an extra layer of curiosity if they are different tools you can play with. Like they did with Gurjaras. Yes Gurjaras are also just strong, but they are a really interesting civ with a lot of different stuff to work with. But Dravidians and Bengalis are basically one-tricks that don’t even have an exceptionally strong masterplan.
For dravidians: Why do they even have battle eles? They are basically useless in their roster. You can just give them knights so they have at least that in the castle age. If their stable is already the worst in the game, at least one usable unit in castle age should be in there.
Medical Corps is a joke. You could make it eg 20 % health is healed per minute (for all units that can be healed).This would add a really cool tool for the civ, a unique feature to work with. Cause it would even apply to their skirm/archer/pike combo though ofc because of the low HP less than for their Eles.
For Bengalis: Please change the Ratha. It’s this kind of “one unit for everything” that kills it. At the same time the need for castles to make it just gives the opponents too many strats against it. And it the timing delay is just too big. IF you want to build the civ around the ratha you have to make the ratha faster available. It’s just that simple.
I also don’t think the bonus damage reduction is any good. We saw it with sicilians and now we see it with bengalis. It has a reason why this game works with bonus damage.It just leads to more interesting games if units counter each other. DIrectly reducing counter mechanics is imo a really, really bad idea casue it makes the gameplay one-dimensional.
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Yes, this was quite apparent from the second the PUP was spoiled. I’m not sure why the devs’ approach is so conservative, shoot high and we can see where the boundaries of Bengalis design are. Shoot low and we really have no idea how much more room there is for improvements before they’re respectable.
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Survivalist suggested giving the Poles stone bonus to Bengalis, cause 2 eco bonuses in feudal is too much. I’m not sure I agree. First because Elephants are the problem with the civ, you can make their eco fantastic but if they have no good unit compositions it’s still going to feel bad and be exploitable. The other issue I have with that is that the poles stone bonus would be broken on basically any civ. The way it funds clownish stuff wouldn’t change, it would just be bengalis doing the nonsense instead.
Just throwing another idea out there.
could actually work cause it would make the transition to ratha easier.
idk if this is accurata though and I would like to see changes to bengali rathas and eles anyways.
I hope you mean this positively, cause I definetely see it positive 
I agree with this. But, I also think Bengalis should get atleast 1 FU trash unit, being a late-game civ. Maybe last infantry armor or hussar upgrade. All other late game civs have 1-2 FU trash units that they can go for.
I like the proposition of giving them knights and removing battle eles.
1 less damage + 5% slower firing rate = A lot less damage output over time.
Much better if they get HC in return.
Wow. I suggested the exact opposite. Gold miners generate stone at 15% rate.
BTW, I proposed fletching, Bodkin Arrow and Bracer don’t cost food as a new bonus as well. I’m starting to like this one over others. This helps them where they need. Their army composition is mostly ranged units. They are supposed to be a Naval civ. And their defense should be good so that they can reach their late game potential.
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I find it lazy and repetitive instead, like giving them bombard cannons.
It would also imply that Bengalis and Dravidians are failed design at the core. Something we could say, but I don’t see devs acknowledge that anytime soon.
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I am against removing BE from Dravidians and Bengalis. For historical and cultural reasons, they are destined to have BE. But they are a global problem. Even the SEA civilizations, in addition to the Khmer can use Knights, basically all use archers. I think there should be a direct discussion on how to improve BE.
The Knights are an uncertain factor. Knights who ignore armor are likely to still be OP by relying only on basic speed and attack power. I also don’t like giving Knights before trying any possibility of improvement.
Are you talking about Dravidians or Bengalis?
If it’s the former, I think 200 wood + half price infantry upgrade + good Skirmishers and navy + Fletching for only 50 gold, which is too powerful in Feudal. Although it is in line with the characteristics of excellent forging ability and early aggressive offensive.
If it’s the latter, I don’t like it too. Their ranged units are actually not such bad things in my opinion so don’t need such a strong bonus yet. This bonus has a huge impact in the early game, but Bengalis should maintain to focus on a strong mid and late game even if they improve. Whether the gold miners generating stones, the Parthian tactics of the castle age, or the blacksmith armor tech sharing that I have proposed before, each one is a relatively balanced and decent attempt I think.
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What about free cav armor BS upgrades for bengalies?
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Free cavalry armor, personally I would tend to reserve for horse civilization like Jurchens.
BE is tanky enough, the advantage of keeping the armor ahead for a short period of time is not obvious, but it makes Scout Cavalry very powerful in the Feudal age, which does not fit the characteristic of the strong mid and late game.
Free elite BE upgrade, I didn’t support it before, but now I take a neutral stance. I can’t quite believe it could help the Bengalis well on the open map or in the Castle age, and additionally one of its premise is that BE can’t be improved as a unit as useful as Knight.
Not free but cheaper could work
But the problem with Bengalis is Castle Age
I would give them another eco bonus instead of a militar one
Not sure what happened, my post disappeared.
Why BE needs to be removed though?
For Dravidians it won’t happen. They will be a Castle age unit only. In Imperial, without Bloodlines, Husbandry, Cavalier, last armor, LC is better to use despite the armor ignoring thing.
The thread is for Bengalis. It is for Bengalis.
Rest of the proposals are also very good. But the more I see, the more I realized Bengalis late game is not actually that good as I initially thought. No gunpowder hurts them badly.
Yeah I also had this in mind. Something like 60% discount on both food and gold.
Cheaper blacksmith techs are sort of eco bonus.
Their eco is a bit slow, but I don’t think it is bad.
I’d love to strengthen that.
They were already half way there. But with new archer nerf and EA buff, I’m positive that won’t happen.
I agree, I never questioned their economic strength.
I don’t instead. Why bother making a elephant civ without knights if it plays archers only?
I can play Malay then, and I’d have cannons at least and usable elephants in castle age.
And I like that (not becoming Vikings clone), because Vikings were nerfed for being too good with limited tech tree, I’d like Bengalis unit tree to be expanded or reworked, not left in this sorry state.
Ratha is nice, interesting unit, in the current state though it’s very hard to use it. I’d start with that.
Make melee Ratha trainable in stables for example.
Build a castle to unlock the change attack feature (optional).
Because we don’t have a civ with EA + Knight combo. I propose this change for Dravidians only. They have two heroes too who look like moderately heavy cavalry. Their BEs are useless anyways and they need something to counter archers and onagers.
Elephant civs doesn’t automatically means BE civ, not for Bengalis, Dravidians and Gurjaras. EA is also elephant. That being said, I proposed my BE buff as well.
I don’t. When Bengalis came out, I knew it will be similar to Vikings and I wanted to keep like that. But now I have changed my mind. EA has good potential to be meta unit. Still needs work but far far better stage than BE. And with a bit more help, EA and Ratha both will be decent option. Granted Bengalis won’t reach 50% W?R in open map (Arabia) but they will get the 45% mark and will have 50%+ in closed maps where they actually have that already.
I’m just thinking about this.
Seems to just need some adjustng, Malay BE line is more suitable for Dravidians (which maybe make the discount a little less due to the 2nd armor), while the current Dravidian BE can be given to Malays (as Malays have Knight line anyway).
With the cost of BE and EA, I don’t ever see them becoming mainstream in 1v1s. 120 food for BE vs 60 for Knight-line. 150 vs 70 resources for EA vs Archer line, not to mention that EA cost food. Despite the increased stats, in current meta, speed (mobility) is king. On top of this no Knights or Camels for either of these two civs. Eco bonus is weak for both civs. If the stable is so more or less unusable then these civs need compensation in other areas (like eagles + great eco for Azt and Mayans).
One way to solve the Dravidian problem (and solve a number of issues with other civs) is to buff militia-line. Speed, PA boost along with replacing the LS with new 2HS (~ average of old 2HS and LS). After all they are supposed to be infantry civ. 200 wood I feel is a very small eco bonus. Either stagger it like 200/300/400 or something like no food archer attack upgrades as suggest in this thread. Also, give them Siege Engineers so they can play FU SO+Infantry. Medical corps so either be buffed to 40hp/m or be applied to infantry as well.
I don’t even know where to start with Bengalis. They are pretty good as pocket in closed maps. Their eco bonus is pretty great but in 1v1s I’m not sure. Something like gold miners generate stone looks very enticing, but I still feel the design of Bengalis is very bad.