It’s a game engine in 2022. It’s complex by default. It’s powerful by default.
Anyway, you have no answers. AoE 2 was released twenty years ago, it’s no comparison at all. All you have is moaning that something is complicated. It is. There are parts that could be easier to work with. But it’s not bad software, and the developers absolutely care about it (otherwise why write pages of documentation for us? Why keep adding things in patches for us modders? Though I doubt you’d know about that ).
I mean, building a website is a completely different thing, but it’s not easier to build a website from scratch. Site builders aren’t the same thing at all. They’re template-based, very restrictive and often have poor UX.
We have here the same tools the developers use (with some restrictions). The whole restarting the game thing is a pain point for them as well. You just have no idea what you’re talking about when you talk about what they “care about”.
I’m a (software, not games) developer, and I’m sure there are plenty others on these forums. There’s loads of stuff that I wish would work better and doesn’t. Doesn’t mean I don’t care, but there’s only a certain amount of days in the week, and I have to actually make content - I can’t spend 40 hours a week working on tooling (actually spent today on improving some internal tools, but it wasn’t even what I was supposed to be doing).
redactor stoped being internal the moment they provided it to players.
Yes. I understand: they just do not want to do job properly(davs/managers or whatever). Since game released in half-ready state, they cut the corners. And Redactor was given just to mark task as “done”.
But keep protecting them and saying “nothing can be done” LOL.
I wonder if they could copy the source code of the current editor and delete all the code the casual guy does not need like changing the size of units and adjusting the sun angel then release an Editor Lite. All I want to do is easily and quickly place units so I can have them fight and see what unit combos counter each other. Just give it one default setting for the sun and cloud stuff and let us place units and tress and change terrain type.
(Edit: throwing down units and watching them fight in a map editor is half the fun of an RTS to super low league potatoes like me as a kid.)
So just to give my honest opinion here, it doesn’t work like that. Because you’d be deleting things required to change parts of the game you want to change.
I could kinda see it for mapmaking, if you wanted to make a flat map that did nothing (which is about the extent of my skill with mapmaking - there are some absolute wizards out there working on mods for Age IV regardless of Raviusd claims).
The problem is we’re comparing tools for a game released in 2005, to a game released in 2022. Back in 2005, you could still open files that the game engine read, in a text editor. It doesn’t work like that anymore. Back then the most advanced thing a map could have was an impasse tool. Or negative terrain, or whatever.
You wouldn’t be able to map any of the maps currently in Age IV - even those made by the developers - if you started just deleting parts of the editor. And I get it - it’s not a normal thing to care about. I get that. But we’re in a thread talking about the mod tools, and I’m a modder. So I care.
What people need - what Age fans want? Is a custom map and / or game mode that lets them simulate the unit placement and sandbox environment of the editor of the previous games in the franchise. That’d satisfy a lot of the “casual” needs (I put casual in quotes because I don’t want to phrase it like an insult, because I don’t mean it as one). I’ve been investigating it on-and-off, but I have very little free time myself to actually work on that kind of thing (there are also some roadblocks the developers need to address).
But the thing is - what the developers need to address, for me, as a modder? For other modders? We want more complexity. Not less. We want access to more things; the ability to change more things. And then we can create the scenarios that people who are less technical, but still wanna play around with, benefit from.
Except what I was working was needed, and the stuff I could’ve been working on . . . we also need That’s kinda what I’m getting at here generally. It’s not “this bad and this good”. I wish it were that simple!
I find it hard to believe that there’s allegedly NOTHING the devs can do to make this editor more user friendly. Strip out all the high advanced stuff in place it in a separate editor like the genie editor for aoe 2 and make an in game editor with basic triggers and terrain/lighting/building/unit placement.
Y’all can defend the devs all day on this but can anyone honestly expect robust modding or map design coming out of this editor? I could bet 100 dollars that 2 years from now you won’t see much more custom maps and mods than we do now.
Well you have a tendency (almost always) to be quite rude and hostile (to put it in the nicest terms possible). For example here you are calling people idiots. So it is no wonder you get flagged.
You seem to at least realize this or have some amount of shame on some level since you deleted your flagged comment, so maybe there is hope for you yet.
Also redactor does not mean what you think it means.
I just provide DnD example, how “easy” it can be done to scenarios/maps by painting. (selection units etc)
Impossible for small indi-studio (aka Relic).
Simple request is made: some people want another tool:
people want: 1) fast tests 2) easy scenario editor As reason “why” current mods=sucks/broken/
You come here and start speaking shit with some useless examples
what ppl really can not do: justify to dive into some shitty editor.
I’ve even checked Lua cause aoe4.Code myself and do manager work.
But he can not spend 40h on tooling. LOL.
He can if he tasked to do so.
One of the fucking “features” of aoe4 was EDITOR. Probably someone should plan it.
UPD
no clever modder/developer pointed out, that you could do fast debuging/tests.
KEKW.
So, my describing was correct. Toxic community, with useless answers.
I agree though that the whole thing needs to be more user friendly or have an easy more limited mode that can still do the bulk of what the average player wants to do.
Nobody said there was nothing they could do. Literally nobody said that.
What you’re suggesting is a different tool entirely, which would take away effort from supporting the current tools and / or the game generally.
Yes. Already has. Modders even ask the developers for realtime advice on the modding Discord I’m on.
Do you know anything about the modding scene currently? How many mods there are?
You might less willing to place that bet if you were. There are so many mods the mod browser needs improving so that people can search through it better (and it needs better filtering options generally).
People are using the tools. People are invested in the tools. In two years time there’ll be plenty more mods than there are now, even considering that there are quite a lot already.
You don’t understand what I’m saying. Which is no surprise, because you don’t actually seem to care about modding in Age IV. You only seem to care about complaining about Relic.
It’s a common enough request. I don’t think it’s worth the effort, personally (various reasons I can expand on if you want to hear why, but saving us both space right now haha), but I’m here in the thread because of the trashing of the existing tools.
I’d like to add a bit of context here, yes old AOEs all used txt files to write RMS in, and it was a very capable system when it came to generating maps, the 2D 3D engine discussion is rather pointless as the complexity lies in different areas, 3D engine doesn’t need to compicate unit rendering for instance, just port a compatible model in and make animations, in 2D render you have to then take individual frame sprites and use those, so extra steps. What i’m getting at is, case of aoe4 editor is a case of developer not seeing it worth bothering (lets be real, it’d be a lot of work) to make RMS work with txt, when they already have SCAR available that can achieve comparable results, its a tool related compromise so to speak, now is scar better than txt, imo no, instead its just a different approach to achieving the same end goal, as for gorbs essence being more complex than any engine in aoe prior arguement, i wouldn’t say it is, what it is is a tool with radically different structure compared to older aoe engines that people aren’t as familiar with due to vastly different tools and file formats being used
to add one more bit: ensemble ensured both their aoe engines used the same RMS format, both for their own convienience and to reduce the learning curve for map scripters, as for relic with aoe4, its the same story but they take their COH and other past essence engine games and their audiences with higher priority, so the tools aoe4 editor uses end up being very similar to almost identical to the tools in COH and other essence games, relic has a pre existing playerbase that has an effect on aoe4 as well, so imo, anyone that wants to learn this editor’s inner workings should actually ask some COH modders how their editors work for specific mods, because there’s about 90% shot (not a random number, this is from my experience) that if the games share the same base engine, they’ll also share 90% of that backend, including file formats, meaning any behaviour that you already know, or learned on COH editor will very likely be identical on aoe4 editor
You say talk to old CoH modders? I agree. You should also talk to old DoW modders, too. It’s a bit more complicated (heh) there because vDoW predates the Essence engine and DoW II never had any official tools beyond the Worldbuilder, but you should still ask them. You should ask me!
I’m not a graphics programmer, by the way, but I can write a sprite renderer. I’ve written a sprite renderer. I can say definitively that it’s easier than a 3D system. The maths alone is more difficult. I can just about stretch my brain to 2D physics. I give up with 3D.
I’m not putting down the older games, either. But folks like to assume that Age IV is technically complex for bad reasons, or like to pretend it’s a simpler game than it is. It does a lot, and the engine can do a lot. The tools reflect this. It’s hard to make simpler tools without limiting what those tools can make.
).
That’s kinda what I’m getting at here generally. It’s not “this bad and this good”. I wish it were that simple!