# Order of the Dragon is just weak **URL:** \ **Category:** IV - Discussion\ **Created:** [November 21, 2023, 1:24pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109 "2023-11-21T13:24:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![KaBandha](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kabandha/32/157925_2.png) [@KaBandha](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/KaBandha)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:49pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/21 "2023-11-21T15:49:59Z")
Malians had at least one buff didn’t they? ---
**Author:** ![TheLiberator236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/theliberator236/32/179247_2.png) [@TheLiberator236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheLiberator236)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:51pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/22 "2023-11-21T15:51:10Z")
Yep, that is correct. Actually plenty of Nerfs as well as Buffs 😁👍 ---
**Author:** ![TheLiberator236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/theliberator236/32/179247_2.png) [@TheLiberator236](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/TheLiberator236)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 3:52pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/23 "2023-11-21T15:52:13Z")
Yep, We have to look forward the next patches. That would change completely the meta and the way the civs are played right now As others replied on this post. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelWallace17](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/samuelwallace17/32/29756_2.png) [@SamuelWallace17](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/SamuelWallace17)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/24 "2023-11-21T16:14:21Z")
Guess what, I believe it would be far more better if they give OotD with normal spearman or MAA but not those luxury guys. Every infantry are occupying double pop, which makes you can’t recruit enough size of army to cover your siege. Honestly, it is pretty good if my landsknecht become Gilded like this, but such luxury spearman is not, it can only confuse me. ---
**Author:** ![KaBandha](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/kabandha/32/157925_2.png) [@KaBandha](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/KaBandha)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 4:29pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/25 "2023-11-21T16:29:59Z")
Yeah actually I was thinking about that too, maybe give them 1 trash unit like spearmen without being gilded, so you can spamm at least some cheap buffer until gilded units. 200 food for one MAA while being slightly stronger than their counterparts is too expensive. At least give them some passive ability like freaking samurai with block. OOTD should have something similair. ---
**Author:** ![KnowingLamb8370](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@KnowingLamb8370](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/KnowingLamb8370)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 5:58pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/26 "2023-11-21T17:58:05Z")
Its eco is too slow and units get a long time to train ---
**Author:** ![CoralDuke572052](https://forums.ageofempires.com/user_avatar/forums.ageofempires.com/coralduke572052/32/112504_2.png) [@CoralDuke572052](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/CoralDuke572052)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/27 "2023-11-21T18:45:04Z")
You’re on the dev team, I can tell. ---
**Author:** ![brubie99](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@brubie99](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/brubie99)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/28 "2023-11-21T19:33:48Z")
All the ranged options are good (xbows, handcannons are both great). Knights are not used much and neither are MAA. Gilded spearman are still quite good vs horses. Landsknechts are probably fine if you go for burgrave, but idk how popular they are. ---
**Author:** ![VoidMaker5560](https://forums.ageofempires.com/letter_avatar_proxy/v4/letter/v/5fc32e/32.png) [@VoidMaker5560](https://forums.ageofempires.com/u/VoidMaker5560)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 8:07pm UTC](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109/29 "2023-11-21T20:07:13Z")
The problem with OotD infantry, is that they die too easily to ranged units (archer for spear, crossbow for maa and Handcannoner can kill anything OotD). This is because they take less overkill, so their weakness are ranged units. That being said, OotD is stronger against melee, because less units get stuck and more are fighting. But weaker against range. This is the reason why the meta has evolved towards units that don’t have range weakness (horsemen and archer). It may be worth to look at increasing the ranged armor of veteran and elite guilded MAA to make them a bit more useful, and compensate for the no overkill. The feudal ones are fine IMO. Regular MAA have 3/4/5 armor based on the age. I think guilded should be more like 3/5/6 or 3/5/7. They would still die to crossbow with those stats, just not as fast and more in line with other maa. [Previous page](https://forums.ageofempires.com/t/order-of-the-dragon-is-just-weak/244109.md?page=1)