Can organ guns projectile speed be slower and shooting in a higher arc but deal high base damage? It will require higher mass to be effective as units can dodge it in low mass
Theyâre just a high elo phosphorus style unit. Even after the projectile scattering change, pros used them often in closed and nomad maps in tournaments. Theyâll just be harder to use in low numbers from here on.
Itâs the wood + gold cost that makes some Castle Age ranged UUs dangerous in pro hands due to their spammability. Itâs especially noticeable when those units also arenât countered by skirmishers.
3 Likes
Thatâs a good point.
Organ guns rush strategy was made popular by some pro called phorsporus.
In response the HP of the non elite unit was nerfed heavily very recently. Portuguese winrate lowered, statistics Show the civ is below 50% winrate, their is no significant castle age winrate spike anymore.
Now for who knows why, they nerf the castle age unit further from 7 to 6 range.
People donât like it. It doesnât make sense to us. The civ and uu is just fine. The elite organ gun ever weak compared to many other UUs or heavy Scorpions.
If you can, ask the devs why they doing this please
2 Likes
Exactly, but sadly itâs not just pros but even as low as 800 elo players do the rush. If theyâre going to nerf itâs range they need to buff something else concerning it because itâs basically useless after this patch, at least in castle age.
Why not just replace its wood cost with food instead of nerfing its range?
Unique units should be strong enough to justify the castle requirement, which is already a huge opportunity cost. I even believe they should be slightly harder to deal with than generic units but not to the point of being an auto-win button. Finding this sweet spot isnât easy, unfortunately.
Survivalist had beaten Hoang with Ratha spam. Looks like this unit is countered by skirms in name only, and it follows a familiar pattern:
- wood + gold cost
- ranged
- high(ish) HP and armor
- not being countered by skirms or archers
Three reasons for lower winrates last 2 patches
- Last patch had Khitans
- Phosphorus builds were nerfed due to chickens.
- A dozen other civs got buffed.
Its not like organ guns themselves were weaker all of a sudden or anything in the last patch. The scattering effect change is not strictly a nerf, it made them weaker in smaller number battles but better at scale.
But the unit is still very powerful in a closed map castle drop into uu gameplay. Its unfair if they had nerfed organ guns alone but theyâve targeted all gunpowder units. Lower dps for hussite wagons, higher food cost for Conqs. So a nerf along with similar units is fine.
Because the Ratha is a mixed unit, meaning it can be brought down by skirms since it is a horse archer, but since it is also melee cavalry it can be brought down by halberdiers line and camels.
Actually Elite Organ Guns are not that great against FU Skirms in Imp. Skirms only take 1 dmg per bullet I believe.
1 Like
Yes, some time arrcher too. And you totally counter orrgan by flood light cavalry. However in 1 vs 1 game hard to use organ unless in close map. But recently I dont see much player use it.
Organ Guns should be hard-countered by cavalry, even by FU Hussars. Because unlike Conqs, Janissaries, or Hand Cannoneers, they donât die to skirms or archers. So they have to be extra weak to something to compensate for their advantage over those other gunpowder units.
1 Like
Yea but having one less range isnât really gonna nurf them to cavalry who will close that distance super fast anyway. Its nurfing them against other siege and town centres and other ranged units which they really donât need. They are a pretty hard and clunky unit to use with very low damage output. Its hard to justify making them in castle age and they donât really seem to have a clear purpose.
3 Likes
Yes, they donât even have a soft trash counter. Honestly if they wanted to nerf it they should have just decreased itâs projectile number which is what makes it shred groups of hussar in imp.
1 Like
Organ guns have 2 bonus damage against skirms, so theyâll deal 2 damage minimum. But skirmishers with armor should only take those 2 points of damage/bullet. But skirmishers donât have a large amount of hp and deal little damage in return, so the organ guns win.
When it comes to trash wars, organ guns are competing with champions (which are more spammable with a feitoria economy). I think that champions are the better anti-trash unit, since hussars still do a decent job against organ guns (and organ guns are always weak to the occasional siege unit, whereas champions flip the script if they get close). And champions can double as a (limited) anti-building unit (while organ guns would require a second siege unit to take that role).
In smaller numbers, organ guns will lose hard against cavalry units. In larger numbers, I wouldnât want to trade organ guns for hussars because hussars are much more replaceable and I donât think organ guns will trade cost-efficiently. I havenât seen them against paladins, but those get 7 pierce armor, which should make things pretty one-sided. But the non-elite range nerf doesnât really change much for organ guns against cavalry.
2 Likes
