The Idea that Flemish Revolution is game breaking is one of the most factually unsupported things that traditionalists keep repeating. Burgundian WR isn’t very good and Flemish usually just kills you. The devs have kept it despite the avalanche of criticism because it’s fun for many players and not particularly powerful. It also solves one of AOE2’s problems, which is that games frequently go to long, boring stalemates.
It’s ok for 1/42 or 1/45 civs to have something like this.
I find it very ridiculous and pro-centric that Bengalis are somehow “more complete” than Burmese. Burmese have settled into a really great spot and a much stronger on ladder for 90+ % of players than Bengalis. Bengalis may be viable on water maps in the hands of very strong players but are universally the worst civ in the game for everyone else with an absurdly clumsy and pigeonholed tech tree.
Well that is because of the design of such tech, is either pay to win or pay to lose, and ends up being just a good way to lose the game or simply get such unfair advantag that isn’t even fun to play vs it anymore.
Check Bengalis usage in TTL for closed maps, the civ is now a top arena civ, and bengali elephant archers with monks are quite hard to stop once you get there, even Bohemians can struggle vs it.
Finally, no one would have said it better…
Well, you can always balance it, making it a super expensive technology…it’s not the end of the world either…they’re just simple halberdiers that you can take down with a couple of archers or skirmishers…
This ofc comes from someone who doesn’t play MP or see tournament games, “couple of skirms” what??? Flemish militia isn’t even weak to skirms, in fact counters skirms, “archers” how you prepare to see 130 infantry guys coming and you will have like 30 archers, also, Burgundians always will keep either paladins or coustiliers in reserve for such case.
I played hundreds of hours in MP (but i liked more play the campaigns) since AoK…if you know that the Burgundians have that technology (just in imperial) just don’t let them get there…besides it’s very circumstantial, since you must remember that if he activate it, it destroys his economy… it is a more defensive or an end-game technology to launch a final attack towards your enemy (it’s an all or nothing strategy)… it is still similar to the AoM Nordic Ragnarok… it is to give a greater variety of strategies to a 1999 game…
The Flemish Militia is weak to all of this: Plumed Archers, Scorpions, Mangonels, Hand Cannoneers, Janissaries, Monks, Slingers, Cataphracts, Teutonic Knights, Samurai, Organ Guns…And that if we don’t count that if it attacks your base, it will have to face your castles…
It is not AoE2. Aoe2 has never had effects and auras. And it just being “fun” for you, doesnt make it a counter-argument.
Throwing a coin, perfectly balanced design. Well, yes but also fucking boring.
Simple? Please they are more like 100 champs with bonus damage to cavalry suddenly appearing.
AoE2 didn’t have lots of things until it did. Gaining a trickle of a resource by gathering another one wasn’t AoE2 until it was, for instance. And at some point, UT did not exist. Do you want those to be removed?
Every line you can draw in the sand between what is or isn’t AoE2 is arbitrary and based on preference. I don’t like Flemish Revolution, but “it’s not AoE2” sounds like a weak reactionary justification to me.
What is this supposed “”“fun”“”“” you speak of? As everyone knows, this game is about hewing close to my preconceived notions of what should be allowed in the game, not about whatever strange “fun” you’re having.
11
Of the 11 units you mention, 7 are UUs. Of the 4 generic ones, 3 dont work as counters (monks are bad against more than 20 targets, mangonels are not really effective against infantry if you cant funnel them in one spot, scorps need to be massed and therefor cant be used reactivly). Only HC works as a good counter.
There are arguments to be made that the revolution is not probematic, but naming a bunch of units that many civs wont have access to certainly is not an argument.
Well, but now it has it and you have to adapt to it, that’s what it’s about to be a changing game…
Yes, but it’s still circumstantial…you have to boom too much to develop it and in the process you have to kill your economy, suppose you activate it and the attack on your enemy fails, you’re sold and the enemy can overwhelm you in the counterattack, making you lose the game…it’s still like the ragnarok of the nordics of aom or the revolutions of aoe 3…It is not necessary to remove it, just make it more expensive…
Well, then create as many hancannoners as your economy allows…the other would be to make the Flemish revolution more expensive…I can’t think of anything else…
Ornlu is 1800ish himself and spends most of his time casting pros. You should kind of expect a pro-centric view from him
they are popular on closed maps, especially regicide fortress
the tech is pretty well balanced, but that’s not the point. It’s game breaking in the way that it doesnt fit the game. After you click flemish revolution the game either swings totally in your favour or totally out of your favour, there is no other tech with such a huge effect, and certainly with such a huge negative effect to your own chance in many situations. it’s the ‘i dont want to play anymore’-button
that’s just BS. flemish militia have +1 of each armour, twice the attack and 50% higher attack speed with +15hp. the only downsides are slightly lower movement speed and less bonus damage against cav.
skirmishers just tickle them. they do +3 bonus against spear units, which doesnt include flemish militia, same goes for the +3 bonus damage arbalesters have
only 3 of those units can be made by all civs, and of those monks are pretty useless. yes, if you have a good ranged unit or a strong anti infantry unit flemish isn’t a big threat. either way it’s missing the point
i can think of something else: replace the tech with something else. villagers gain bonus damage against cavalry or something else that isn’t as janky
Dude there must be a ruleset that defines aoe2 as a game. And you cannot subvert the basis rules of rhe game and then not see the game becoming identityless and just a remix of all similiar games. And therefore it is a valid argumentation to say, something that wasnt aoe2 for 20 years should never become aoe2 just because cysion needs to sell dlcs with his disruptive agenda. Disruption means destroying.
Flemish revolution is a toxic and itself broken mechanic, just like gurjara knight replacement ignoring damage. And because it is broken, they added it, so the ones who eat it, can say, at least it something new. Same as eating nails as breakfast.
A tech that doesnt get researched at all, doesnt solve the issue of its basically flawed design. You cannot give one civ an emergency button where they can turn a losing game into a 50% of winning it again or just instantly losing it without risk. It is like that holy grail meme.
And on other notes, AoE3 and AoM are totally different subgenres of RTS and they have nothing to do with AoE2. If I wanted to play the endless numbers of fantasy based RTS with auras and special attacks, I would have played these. But where are most of them now? In the depot of the forgotten. While aoe2 survived 20 years without that bullshit and has proven it never needed these, but instead adding stuff that never was part of the original game idea, will more likely make the game a shapeless assortion of randomness. But I guess nowadays, people are so bored, they prefer bad and useless remakes that destroy the legacy of old, as long as they get something new of what they obsessed with. That is basically what Disney remakes are all about
Well, maybe they simply ran out of ideas or wanted there to be some mechanical cohesion with the saga: for example the flemish revolution taking as inspiration the ragnarok from aom or the revolutions of aoe 3 or the sergeants building special buildings like the nordic ones from aom;for example in aoe 3 you have military units that can build buildings, even in one of the last patches the lakota can move buildings like the mongols of aoe 4 and the malian of aoe 4 that have automatic mines like the ethiopians from aoe 3…I don’t think it’s the end of the world either; it’s simply a saga that keeps mutating and changing, trying new things…
grand finale